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islamispeace View Drop Down
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RESPONSE TO JOUBERAR:

So, running away are we Jouberar?  Cry Too bad.  But at least it shows that you are just a charlatan and when cornered, you will try to find a way to escape.  Your response again failed to answer the question and now you are trying to terminate the discussion.  Good job!  You and your buddy Shibboleth are almost identical in your style of discussion and fallacy-riddled responses!

You said regarding Paul:

Quote
 
Aparantly thier were a lot of whitenesses with Paul the men who journyed with him Jesus and God.

Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: (So Jesus is the key witness and the most reliable witness.)



This is called circular reasoning and it also did not answer the question.  It was Paul who claimed that Jesus talked to him, but you have not proven that Paul was telling the truth, have you?  Your argument was that he had witnesses.  I want to know who these witnesses were and what happened to them?  I also want to know why the Book of Acts, which you claimed was reliable, contradicts itself when discussing the event in question.  Your response was a pathetic fallacy followed by a "I am ending this conversation" rant and then a rant about how Muslims hate Paul.  Well, you haven't done Paul any favors by improving his reputation with us Muslims with your pathetic arguments! Big%20smile 

Anyway, if you want to run away, so be it.  But, don't you ever try to bash Islam again or I will find you and take you down! Evil%20Smile
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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 To JOUBERAR

 Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: (So Jesus is the key witness and the most reliable witness.)

 My Response:

 So few things to note, Paul is on a journey, he then sees a light and hears a voice, this voice is supposedly Jesus.Paul then asks Jesus what do you want me to do? The response by Jesus is for Paul to go to the city and it will be made known to him over there. Now lets read what Acts 26: 12-18:

 12 Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, 13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. 14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me

 So note the difference, in the first account all Jesus tells him is go to the city to find out what you must do, in this account in Acts 22 we see Jesus already telling Paul what he must do! So which one is it? Will Paul know what his purpose is in the city? Or did he already know?

 

In fact in the account version of Acts 22: 5-10, there is no mention of Jesus telling Paul all this information:

. 5 As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished. 6 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me. 7 And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest. 9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me. 10 And I said, What shall I do, LORD? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do

This account agrees with the version of Acts 9, Acts 26 is the only different one in this case; Acts 26 contradicts Acts 9 and 22.

 It is very easy to notice the contradiction, in Acts 9 and 22, Jesus tells Paul that he will know what to do in the city, in Acts 26 Jesus already tells Paul what he will do and mentions nothing about going to a city to find out. So which one is it?
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Originally posted by islamispeace islamispeace wrote:

Originally posted by JOUBERAR JOUBERAR wrote:

Originally posted by islamispeace islamispeace wrote:

RESPONSE TO JOUBERAR:

I asked you for evidence of Paul's claims.  What proof did he provide for his claims?  Why is Paul telling the truth but Muhammad is not?  I did not ask for a chronology of Paul's activities.  I already know about that. 

I am exposing the holes in your argument against Muhammad (pbuh).  You assume many things because of your JudeoChristian-centrist bias and have many hypocritical standards. 
 
Paul have whitenesses with him on his way to Damascus.
After three years his work in Damascus came to an abrupt end. Somehow he had fallen foul of the ethnarch (governor) of the region of Nabataean Arabia. The ethnarch set a watch on the gates of Damascus, but Paul escaped over the wall in a basket and made his way to Jerusalem. There he met Peter, the Apostle, and James, the Lord's brother. This was an important meeting, for it established Paul as a recognized Apostle alongside the founders of the church at Jerusalem. The visit was brief, and Paul did not meet the Christian communities in the vicinity. Most likely this was due to the danger of reprisals from the Pharisees, who regarded Paul as a renegade. Therefore, after only two weeks, he set out on a new mission to Cilicia and Syria, with a base in his native city of Tarsus
 
 
Pauls claims was writen in a time when the middle east was under the control of the Roman empire and Paul and the narraters of the new testament was highly educated personal who captured the history to the best of thier ability.
 
Muhammad as you know was illiterate he could not read nor write, so who is the is the most reliable source who will you put under your administration to record the events of a book the one who can read or write or the one who can not.
 
If you already know about Pauls claims then why do ask me again You know why islam hate Paul so much cos he is the biggest thorn is islams flesh and muslims cant take the fact that he was straight forward with his faith and he predicted the false religions like islam will arise by making claims of recieving the word of God through intercessing with angels.
 
Luke identifies Saul of Tarsus who becomes the Apostle Paul. More than half of the book of Acts is devoted to Paul's conversion and mission trips.
 
Due to the credibility of the book of Acts, the probability for the Apostle Paul's story is very high. The archaeological discoveries related to the book of Acts also correlate to the Apostle Paul. This adds 162 items into the calculation that support the life of Paul.
 
Peter identifies the Apostle Paul and discusses Paul's writing. ". . . our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction" (2 Peter 3:15-16).
Due to Paul's mission work, he wrote 13 epistles. Nine of these were addressed to local churches Paul had helped to establish. Three epistles are referred to as Pastoral Epistles. And one is address to a fellow Christian (Philemon) about a runaway slave named Onesimus, who had become a Christian.

The written evidence recorded before the end of the 1st century gives us three independent sources that support the existence of the Apostle Paul. But the greatest contribution to establishing the biblical character known as the Apostle Paul are the archaeological discoveries that match the written text in the book of Acts.

Act 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:

Act 17:2 and Paul, as his custom was, went in unto them, and for three sabbath days reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

Act 17:3 opening and alleging that it behooved the Christ to suffer, and to rise again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom, said he, I proclaim unto you, is the Christ.(This is why muslims hate Paul so much)



You say Paul had witnesses.  There are two problems with this argument.  First of all, who were these witnesses?  What happened to them?  Sorry, but phantom witnesses don't give Paul more credibility.  Second of all, since you refer to the Books of Acts perceived "credibility", I feel that I should point out that it does not give a consistent analysis of the encounter in Damascus.  In other words, it contradicts itself.  Acts 9 says that the alleged "witnesses" heard something but did not see anyone whereas Acts 22 says they did not hear anything at all, let alone seeing anything:

Acts 9: 1-9
Quote 1Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest 2and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"

 5"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked.

   "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. 6"Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."

 7The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.

 

Acts 22: 1-11

Quote 1 �Brethren and fathers, hear my defense before you now.� 2 And when they heard that he spoke to them in the Hebrew language, they kept all the more silent.
Then he said: 3 �I am indeed a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, taught according to the strictness of our fathers� law, and was zealous toward God as you all are today. 4 I persecuted this Way to the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women, 5 as also the high priest bears me witness, and all the council of the elders, from whom I also received letters to the brethren, and went to Damascus to bring in chains even those who were there to Jerusalem to be punished.
6 �Now it happened, as I journeyed and came near Damascus at about noon, suddenly a great light from heaven shone around me. 7 And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, �Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?� 8 So I answered, �Who are You, Lord?� And He said to me, �I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting.�
9 �And those who were with me indeed saw the light and were afraid,[a]10 but they did not hear the voice of Him who spoke to me. So I said, �What shall I do, Lord?� And the Lord said to me, �Arise and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all things which are appointed for you to do.� 11 And since I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of those who were with me, I came into Damascus. 

Which is it?  Did they hear the voice or some sound or didn't they.  So, not only do you have phantom witnesses who are lost to history, you also have a contradictory account about whether they were even witnesses to anything at all.

 
Aparantly thier were a lot of whitenesses with Paul the men who journyed with him Jesus and God.

Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: (So Jesus is the key witness and the most reliable witness.)

 
Islam hate Pauls statements in which he predicted false religions like islam who origanited from a so called false angel.
 
This is closing my argument with you and thus you still haven't provided any evidence for me that  of Muhammad's so called visions of an angel which had tell the story of the Quran can you you provide me any of the witnesses who were present if there were any present that have seen Muhammad have any contact or conversation with a angel in the cave Hira at  mount  Jabal al-Nour where muslims think he received his so called first revelation.
 
Here is so called first revelation in sura 96 (supposed  to be sura 1) Why is the first revelation located in the 96th sura where the 2 nd and 3 rd revelation then yes they scattered all over the Quran which is supposed to be holy.
 

  1. In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful

  2. 96:1 Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-

  3. 96:2 Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:(This is in contrast with God's creation  God created man out the dust of the earth 1st)

  4. 96:3 Proclaim! And thy Lord is Most Bountiful,-

  5. 96:4 He Who taught (the use of) the pen,-

  6. 96:5 Taught man that which he knew not.

  7. 96:6 Day, but man doth transgress all bounds,

  8. 96:7 In that he looketh upon himself as self-sufficient.

  9. 96:8 Verily, to thy Lord is the return (of all).

  10. 96:9 Seest thou one who forbids-

  11. 96:10 A votary when he (turns) to pray?

  12. 96:11 Seest thou if he is on (the road of) Guidance?-

  13. 96:12 Or enjoins Righteousness?

  14. 96:13 Seest thou if he denies (Truth) and turns away?

  15. 96:14 Knoweth he not that Allah doth see?

  16. 96:15 Let him beware! If he desist not, We will drag him by the forelock,-

  17. 96:16 A lying, sinful forelock!

  18. 96:17 Then, let him call (for help) to his council (of comrades):

  19. 96:18 We will call on the angels of punishment (to deal with him)!

  20. 96:19 Day, heed him not: But bow down in adoration, and bring thyself the closer (to Allah)!

    The Second Revelation in Sura 74.

    The second portion of the Qur'an revealed to the Prophet Muhammad was the beginning of Sura al-muddaththir (74: 15). It now consists of 56 verses, the rest revealed later, and begins as follows: 'O you, covered in your cloak, arise and warn, thy Lord magnify, thy raiment purify, pollution shun ...'

    The Last Revelation muslims can not even figure out which sura was the last revelation in thier so called devine book where nothing is even writen in chronological order  it is so distorted

    Many Muslim scholars agree that the last revelation was Sura 2, verse 281:

    'And fear the day when ye shall be brought back to God. Then shall every soul be paid what it earned and none shall be dealt with unjustly.'

    Some also say that it was 2:282 or 2:278. [Kamal, Ahmad 'Adil: 'ulum al-Qur'an, Cairo, 1974, p.18.]

    It has also been suggested that all three verses were revealed on one occasion. The Prophet died nine nights after the last revelation.

    Others hold that Sura 5:4 was the last to be revealed:

    'This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.'

    The opinion that this verse was the last revelation is not sound according to many scholars, since it was revealed during the last pilgrimage of the Prophet. This information is based upon a hadith from 'Umar. Suyuti explains concerning the verse in Sura 5 that after it nothing concerning ahkam and hal'al and haram was revealed, and in this sense it is the 'completion' of religion. However, revelation reminding man of the coming day of judgement continued and the last such revelation is the above verse. [Sabuni, tibyan pp. 18-9] 



Edited by JOUBERAR - 04 March 2010 at 6:38pm
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Originally posted by JOUBERAR JOUBERAR wrote:

Originally posted by islamispeace islamispeace wrote:

RESPONSE TO JOUBERAR:

I asked you for evidence of Paul's claims.  What proof did he provide for his claims?  Why is Paul telling the truth but Muhammad is not?  I did not ask for a chronology of Paul's activities.  I already know about that. 

I am exposing the holes in your argument against Muhammad (pbuh).  You assume many things because of your JudeoChristian-centrist bias and have many hypocritical standards. 
 
Paul have whitenesses with him on his way to Damascus.
After three years his work in Damascus came to an abrupt end. Somehow he had fallen foul of the ethnarch (governor) of the region of Nabataean Arabia. The ethnarch set a watch on the gates of Damascus, but Paul escaped over the wall in a basket and made his way to Jerusalem. There he met Peter, the Apostle, and James, the Lord's brother. This was an important meeting, for it established Paul as a recognized Apostle alongside the founders of the church at Jerusalem. The visit was brief, and Paul did not meet the Christian communities in the vicinity. Most likely this was due to the danger of reprisals from the Pharisees, who regarded Paul as a renegade. Therefore, after only two weeks, he set out on a new mission to Cilicia and Syria, with a base in his native city of Tarsus
 
 
Pauls claims was writen in a time when the middle east was under the control of the Roman empire and Paul and the narraters of the new testament was highly educated personal who captured the history to the best of thier ability.
 
Muhammad as you know was illiterate he could not read nor write, so who is the is the most reliable source who will you put under your administration to record the events of a book the one who can read or write or the one who can not.
 
If you already know about Pauls claims then why do ask me again You know why islam hate Paul so much cos he is the biggest thorn is islams flesh and muslims cant take the fact that he was straight forward with his faith and he predicted the false religions like islam will arise by making claims of recieving the word of God through intercessing with angels.
 
Luke identifies Saul of Tarsus who becomes the Apostle Paul. More than half of the book of Acts is devoted to Paul's conversion and mission trips.
 
Due to the credibility of the book of Acts, the probability for the Apostle Paul's story is very high. The archaeological discoveries related to the book of Acts also correlate to the Apostle Paul. This adds 162 items into the calculation that support the life of Paul.
 
Peter identifies the Apostle Paul and discusses Paul's writing. ". . . our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction" (2 Peter 3:15-16).
Due to Paul's mission work, he wrote 13 epistles. Nine of these were addressed to local churches Paul had helped to establish. Three epistles are referred to as Pastoral Epistles. And one is address to a fellow Christian (Philemon) about a runaway slave named Onesimus, who had become a Christian.

The written evidence recorded before the end of the 1st century gives us three independent sources that support the existence of the Apostle Paul. But the greatest contribution to establishing the biblical character known as the Apostle Paul are the archaeological discoveries that match the written text in the book of Acts.

Act 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:

Act 17:2 and Paul, as his custom was, went in unto them, and for three sabbath days reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

Act 17:3 opening and alleging that it behooved the Christ to suffer, and to rise again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom, said he, I proclaim unto you, is the Christ.(This is why muslims hate Paul so much)



You say Paul had witnesses.  There are two problems with this argument.  First of all, who were these witnesses?  What happened to them?  Sorry, but phantom witnesses don't give Paul more credibility.  Second of all, since you refer to the Books of Acts perceived "credibility", I feel that I should point out that it does not give a consistent analysis of the encounter in Damascus.  In other words, it contradicts itself.  Acts 9 says that the alleged "witnesses" heard something but did not see anyone whereas Acts 22 says they did not hear anything at all, let alone seeing anything:

Acts 9: 1-9
Quote 1Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest 2and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"

 5"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked.

   "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. 6"Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."

 7The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.

 

Acts 22: 1-11

Quote 1 �Brethren and fathers, hear my defense before you now.� 2 And when they heard that he spoke to them in the Hebrew language, they kept all the more silent.
Then he said: 3 �I am indeed a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, taught according to the strictness of our fathers� law, and was zealous toward God as you all are today. 4 I persecuted this Way to the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women, 5 as also the high priest bears me witness, and all the council of the elders, from whom I also received letters to the brethren, and went to Damascus to bring in chains even those who were there to Jerusalem to be punished.
6 �Now it happened, as I journeyed and came near Damascus at about noon, suddenly a great light from heaven shone around me. 7 And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, �Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?� 8 So I answered, �Who are You, Lord?� And He said to me, �I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting.�
9 �And those who were with me indeed saw the light and were afraid,[a]10 but they did not hear the voice of Him who spoke to me. So I said, �What shall I do, Lord?� And the Lord said to me, �Arise and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all things which are appointed for you to do.� 11 And since I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of those who were with me, I came into Damascus. 

Which is it?  Did they hear the voice or some sound or didn't they.  So, not only do you have phantom witnesses who are lost to history, you also have a contradictory account about whether they were even witnesses to anything at all.
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Originally posted by Jasonchristian Jasonchristian wrote:

Originally posted by jdtiger2002 jdtiger2002 wrote:

I have read Quran book and learned more about Muslim's religious. I can see that Quran has many miracles. It sounds like God's words. I heard that Quran has no errors and others books have many errors. I have seen that Holy Bible has many errors.

One thing bother me that false prophets will come after Jesus. Is Muhammad true prophet even though Holy Bible says that there will be false prophets after Jesus?

Please read this verses and explain to me if you really believe that Muhammad is true prophet. I want to understand.

I picked two verses from Holy Bible. These verses seem powerful

2 Corinthians 11:13-15

13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

 14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

1 John 4:1-6

1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

 4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

 5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

 6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

 

 

Yes, Mohammed fits the false prophet profile to a tee.  He denied the Lord Jesus Christ, and his followers today prove that they are not Children of God by their hatred and wicked deeds.  The whole world sees them as evil.



Dear Jason,
welcome to the forum, I am hopeful that coming to this forum will be of great benefit to you. First I must admit that you want to serve God as portrayed in your post. Second I must also admit that you are not very well versed about Islamic teachings rather spoon fed with religious politics.
God only loves the Truth, if you aim for that, you are on the right path. If you become the tools of other trades, then you have strayed from the straight path.
To correct you, prophet Mohammed (pbuh) did not deny, nor any Muslim can deny prophet Jesus (pbuh). He was one of many prophets God sent for our guidance according to the Quran. If you noticed I took out your words of "Lord" for Jesus. This is where we disagree. You and people like you turned a man, a beloved prophet of God into a Lord and God, when he was neither of the two. This has to be corrected and humanity needed the guidance from their God.
The last prophet was sent only to guide us back to the pure worship of God and none else. What is false about  that? Without him being sent, we would be in darkness of worshiping wrongfully God's creation. After the last prophet was sent, we have a chance, and a choice to worship God only and achieve salvation or follow our own desires to our own destructon. The choice is easy, but with consequence, obviously. I fear the consequence so I choose to worship God only, by submitting myself to my God, and that is Islam. You have your chance and choice and consequence, simple as that.

Jason, we need to be careful repeating others words and what we don't comprehend. Of course, we Muslims are not God's children but nor are you or any other humans. We are God's creation in reality and truth, and we must not say what we don't mean or what is not true. Remember, common sense tells us that if God has children, those children will be gods. And we know that there is nothing like that. There is only One God, without parents and off springs.
And this guidance comes to us only through Quran and the last prophet (pbuh).
As far as deeds, the truth and knowledge of that is only with God, and God will show us and decide who was wicked and who was righteous. That's not for you, me or the media to decide. Jesus was the trouble maker and wicked for the ruling Jews and the Roman Empire because of their own evil deeds, so they demonized him and tried to kill him, but according to the Quran, God raised him to Himself without any harm and saved him from his enemies.
Trust me if any do wrong and destroy life, he/she will not escape justice, they each will have their date to answer and get justice to the tinniest possible measure one day. But let us avoid politics, because that's get people in trouble. Let us keep them separate, here let us only talk our beliefs.
I hope this has been helpful.
Hasan



Edited by honeto - 03 March 2010 at 7:32pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Unfortunately the Quran fails miserably in confirming the Holy Scriptures in regards to the flood of Noah but on the other hand attempts to support the Torah as I previously shown.  According to Sura 21:76, Noah and his family is saved from the flood, and Sura 37:77 confirms that his seed survived. But Sura 11:42-43 reports that Noah's son drowns. It�s now clear to me why Muslims don�t know whether to speak in favor of the Torah or against it. They are only following the authors� writing style in playing both sides of the fence.   

The Quran also states before them *the people of Noah* rejected (their messenger): They rejected Our servant and said, 'Here is One possessed!' And he was driven out." [Sura 54:9] Now, if he is driven out [expelled from their country] how come they can scoff at him while he is building the ark since we read "Forthwith he (starts) constructing the Ark: Every time that the Chiefs of *his people* passed by him, they threw ridicule on him." [Sura 11:38] He cannot be both: Driven out and near enough that they can regularly pass by, another inherent contradiction of itself and a miserable attempt to confirm the Bible unaltered word.

In fact the whole story of Noah is narrated in an unrealistic way.
�If you doubt what we have revealed to you, ask those who have read the Scriptures before you.� (Sura 10, Yunis [Jonah], verse 94) & (Surah Al �Imran: 84-85)
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JOUBERAR View Drop Down
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Originally posted by islamispeace islamispeace wrote:

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I asked you for evidence of Paul's claims.  What proof did he provide for his claims?  Why is Paul telling the truth but Muhammad is not?  I did not ask for a chronology of Paul's activities.  I already know about that. 

I am exposing the holes in your argument against Muhammad (pbuh).  You assume many things because of your JudeoChristian-centrist bias and have many hypocritical standards. 
 
Paul have whitenesses with him on his way to Damascus.
After three years his work in Damascus came to an abrupt end. Somehow he had fallen foul of the ethnarch (governor) of the region of Nabataean Arabia. The ethnarch set a watch on the gates of Damascus, but Paul escaped over the wall in a basket and made his way to Jerusalem. There he met Peter, the Apostle, and James, the Lord's brother. This was an important meeting, for it established Paul as a recognized Apostle alongside the founders of the church at Jerusalem. The visit was brief, and Paul did not meet the Christian communities in the vicinity. Most likely this was due to the danger of reprisals from the Pharisees, who regarded Paul as a renegade. Therefore, after only two weeks, he set out on a new mission to Cilicia and Syria, with a base in his native city of Tarsus
 
 
Pauls claims was writen in a time when the middle east was under the control of the Roman empire and Paul and the narraters of the new testament was highly educated personal who captured the history to the best of thier ability.
 
Muhammad as you know was illiterate he could not read nor write, so who is the is the most reliable source who will you put under your administration to record the events of a book the one who can read or write or the one who can not.
 
If you already know about Pauls claims then why do ask me again You know why islam hate Paul so much cos he is the biggest thorn is islams flesh and muslims cant take the fact that he was straight forward with his faith and he predicted the false religions like islam will arise by making claims of recieving the word of God through intercessing with angels.
 
Luke identifies Saul of Tarsus who becomes the Apostle Paul. More than half of the book of Acts is devoted to Paul's conversion and mission trips.
 
Due to the credibility of the book of Acts, the probability for the Apostle Paul's story is very high. The archaeological discoveries related to the book of Acts also correlate to the Apostle Paul. This adds 162 items into the calculation that support the life of Paul.
 
Peter identifies the Apostle Paul and discusses Paul's writing. ". . . our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction" (2 Peter 3:15-16).
Due to Paul's mission work, he wrote 13 epistles. Nine of these were addressed to local churches Paul had helped to establish. Three epistles are referred to as Pastoral Epistles. And one is address to a fellow Christian (Philemon) about a runaway slave named Onesimus, who had become a Christian.

The written evidence recorded before the end of the 1st century gives us three independent sources that support the existence of the Apostle Paul. But the greatest contribution to establishing the biblical character known as the Apostle Paul are the archaeological discoveries that match the written text in the book of Acts.

Act 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:

Act 17:2 and Paul, as his custom was, went in unto them, and for three sabbath days reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

Act 17:3 opening and alleging that it behooved the Christ to suffer, and to rise again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom, said he, I proclaim unto you, is the Christ.(This is why muslims hate Paul so much)

 
 
   
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RESPONSE TO JOUBERAR:

I asked you for evidence of Paul's claims.  What proof did he provide for his claims?  Why is Paul telling the truth but Muhammad is not?  I did not ask for a chronology of Paul's activities.  I already know about that. 

I am exposing the holes in your argument against Muhammad (pbuh).  You assume many things because of your JudeoChristian-centrist bias and have many hypocritical standards. 
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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