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Nationalism

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b95000 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 September 2005 at 12:24am
Originally posted by hkrespect hkrespect wrote:

nationalism that was introduced to muslims by however was evil and is evil.

look at sudan

look at pakistan and bangladesh

look at the arabs fightin turks

kurds fightin everyone

as muslims, our allegiance should lie with islam, then islam, then islam and then islam and only islam.

nationalism takes away allegiance from the shahada to some man made constitution.



But to which Islam do/should one pledge their allegiance?  To the Sunnis, to the Shia's, to the Wahhabis, to the Sufis?
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
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b95000 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b95000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2005 at 12:22am
Originally posted by MOCKBA MOCKBA wrote:

 

It is interesting how people admit that they are not "well versed in the Quran and Sunnah" yet at the same time rush to define the concept of Islamic State.

"As I see, there is nothing wrong with the way Nationalism is practised in Malaysia..."  

...obviously, and without a doubt when you are Malay. Nationalism, for sure, protects interests of one particular group of people but it does not guarantee that it will not diminish the rights of others. Reflecting on the success of Malaysia in the political and economic scene one might as well attribute it to the royal Malay families whose status and endless rights resulting from it should never ever be questioned by any Malaysian. Are these the right explanations of country's success... or a make-belief? Reaping the harvest of his earlier views, former PM Tun Mahathir did come up with "The Malay Dilemma" trying to explaining the stagnant development process of Malays in the shadow of their special rights... "the son of soil"...

"Malay Civilisation has already absorded Islam to its culture and it can be conveniently claimed that Malay=ISlam and Islam=MAlay"

This is the very point that clearly explains why many Malays find non-Malay Muslims exotic to say the least. If you happen to be Muhammad of non-Asian complexion sipping teh tarik beneath the tallest Twin Towers in the world - you are likely to leave many Malays puzzled... "Mat Salleh (Caucasian) with a Malay name?!!"

"Muslims of non Malays are not discriminated against as the racial defination is relax on non Malay Muslim for a son-of-soil status.

Discrimination does not have to be in the form of a "white policemen using excessive force against a non-white citizen". One may enquire whether Malaysia can expect a a non-Malay Muslim Prime Minister born in Malaysia in the coming decades? This helps answer whether foundation of "Islamic State of Malaysia" is based on Islamic principles. How many scholarships are allocated for the non-Malay Muslim students?

"I see Nationalism as a necessary tool and justify for the development of the ummah, within the context of Malaysia.   

Malay Nationalism... Malay ummah... within the context of Malaysia.

With much respect to Malaysians and Malays, the country with true peace and harmony of various ethnic groups, with Muslims that have shown much patience and tolerance, I only tried to make a point that nationalism is not behind the achieved success at all (contrary to Malay nationalist's views above)  but it might be well behind potential disaster in the near future.   

May Allaah [The Great, The Glorious] make us devoted Muslims embracing each other, respecting each other, loving each other and defending each other in the context of the world. Perhaps one day Palestinians will cease to fight for Palestine, Chechens will cease their battles for Ichkeria and Indonesia will not bring up territorial disputes with Malaysia, but united, as Muslims should, they will establish an Islamic state, where the true supreme power is attributed to Allaah, The King of the Kings.

And Allah knoweth best.

MOCKBA

 



"Perhaps one day"

How is this to happen?  What catalyst will bring it about?
Bruce
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nico View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nico Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2005 at 3:01pm

Hayfa


We are all one world.

Let's assume we are "one world" who or what should rule over that "oneness"? The problem with getting rid of nation-states is that the only other alternative is centralized world government which panders to a certain population and alienates the rest, so it becomes a autocracy. What should rule us all apart from the nation-state?

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2005 at 1:03pm

Hello & Salam

For a moment I had thought this thread was for "N A T I O N A L I S M". After your Hello & Salam I am delightfully confused.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote masad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 September 2005 at 12:27am

Hello & Salam:

Here is a flash presentation on the structural and institutional causes of war, based on the work of the sociologist C. Wright Mills (1916-1962). Very relevant to understanding the world scene and the International system today

http://war.asadi.org

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 4:03pm
When real education (not mentioning "schooling" here) is lacking we stumble into all kinds of pits. Racism and nationalism are just some of those pits.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hayfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2005 at 2:56pm

Not sure about nationalism, just that I meet many Moslems who put down ther Moslems like:

"Oh those Arabs they are....."

"Those Pakistanis are not good Moslems..."

As if the group represents the individual.

Many of these 'nation-state' boundaries were created during colonialism or post-colonialism. They are false boundries thay gives people wrong identities and focus on the wrong thing  We are all one world.  It does not do anyone any good if one area is doing well economically and another is going through terrible times.

Yes we need organization, local social, economical and political structures. But those should not be our identity as human beings. One problem, in my mind, is that we all seperate more from each other. We lose the inter-connectedness. With technology we should be more connected not less. Nationalism continues that divide.  

 

 

When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alikhlas99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2005 at 8:09am
Masha'Allah, tears formed i my eyes when I read these preceding posts.

"Islam unites nations"

What a beautiful notion!

Mere words cannot describe the love I feel for you, my brothers and sisters. May Allah unite our unworthy hearts once more.

BTW, I myself am a Malay, Malaysian Muslim but I agree with everything  my brother MOCKBA has posted and none that utd4ever  has (May Allah SWT guide you nonetheless, akhi).

Nationalism is rotten.


Edited by alikhlas99
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