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A website w/info about concept of trinity

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Andalus View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 January 2007 at 9:08pm
Originally posted by Patty Patty wrote:

 

I have noticed (while not responding, as it's not my place here) that there is also great dissention among various tribes/sects of good Muslims.)  So it's not only Christians who bat around the possibilities of what is meant in holy documents, such as the Qu'ran and the Bible.

Greetings Patty.

I would like to point out that the sectarian differences amongst Muslims is a very different "animal", than the theological differences that plagued Christians, especially in the first 4 centuries.

1) For Christians, the differences were about the very basic ideas that would make up the tenents of belief concerning Jesus. This would be the same as Muslims splitting into groups and fighting over the nature of Proohet Muhammad (saw), or his mission, or the nature of God, or the relationship between the prophet (saw) and God.

2) For Christians, the differences were about such fundemental topics, that the diverse ideologies are an evidence that the church doctors did more speculating about Jesus than conjuring facts. For Muslims, even when you look at the rift between Shias and Sunnis, you will find that the initial rift was not so cannonized, and the two sides held major concepts about God and prophet Muhammad (saw) to be the same. As time passed, the Shias did pick up some theolgical differences and methods for deriving religous law, but they still hold that there are five pillars, which sunnis hold to. So on a fundemental level, they do agree. 

Take care Patty!

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
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DavidC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 January 2007 at 9:54am
God does not need anything, but a son needs a father.

The point of viewing the Trinity this way is that it avoids anthropomorphization. "Son" is to indicate that it logically proceeds from the father.


Edited by DavidC
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Angel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 January 2007 at 7:58am
Originally posted by amah amah wrote:

My question: why does God need a son?

Peace.



Surely you should know that by now, even if you don't believe and get it

The son of God came to redeem man from the original sin from Adam and Eve's fall, and to reconnect man and God.

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 January 2007 at 7:33am
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Originally posted by Andalus Andalus wrote:

I have yet to find a trinity analogy that does not prove modalism.



Try this one:

God the Father is the creator and how Christians describe the God we worship. This is the realm of our thoughts and intentions.

God the Son is how we carry out the will of the God the Father on earth. This is the realm of our physical actions.

The Holy Spirit is the flow between the two, and the connection between all people.  It is the realm of the emotional.

Bismillahirrahmanirraheem

Greetings David,

You might pull your hair out trying to explain this one to me.

My question: why does God need a son?

Peace.

Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 January 2007 at 5:07am
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Originally posted by Andalus Andalus wrote:

I have yet to find a trinity analogy that does not prove modalism.



Try this one:

God the Father is the creator and how Christians describe the God we worship. This is the realm of our thoughts and intentions.

God the Son is how we carry out the will of the God the Father on earth. This is the realm of our physical actions.

The Holy Spirit is the flow between the two, and the connection between all people.  It is the realm of the emotional.


nice one DavidC, must put that one to into my collection
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 January 2007 at 4:07am
Originally posted by Andalus Andalus wrote:

I have yet to find a trinity analogy that does not prove modalism.



Try this one:

God the Father is the creator and how Christians describe the God we worship. This is the realm of our thoughts and intentions.

God the Son is how we carry out the will of the God the Father on earth. This is the realm of our physical actions.

The Holy Spirit is the flow between the two, and the connection between all people.  It is the realm of the emotional.
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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Patty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Patty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 January 2007 at 5:11pm

Dear Maryah,

I agree with everything you said.  And most certainly it will all be sorted out on Judgement Day.  Just as a side note, I do read all I can about Islam and the Qu'ran...how could I debate anything if I were so closed minded as to not be informed of both faiths?  Thanks again for your remarks and posts, Maryah.

Pax Domini!

Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mariyah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 January 2007 at 1:34pm

Peace dear Patty,

 I do not intend to disprove anyone, just to clarify why I as a Muslim honor Jesus
(pbuh) as one of the most important messengers of God. But faith, as we know, is a
"committed belief as to things unseen" and yes, what we are seeing here is smply mankind's
differing interpretation of spiritual writings. We live on faith on that which is unseen,
and is manifest by the amazing examples of the handiwork of God around us. If a point feels uncomfortable
to us, maybe it is time that we explore why that point that makes us uncomfortable causes
us to feel that way. For 2 years in Turkey we attended a parochial school (many Muslim girls
did, it was the only way to have a higher education in those days) and the nuns would tell the
muslim girls "now this is what we believe" when teaching the religious class, which we could
opt out of or attend just to understand the Dogma of the church. Much of it was not hard to understand.
So I do understand your religion, and I understand that you were taught not to question what
was not clear, to think of it as the "mystery" and shy away from it. Back then, your masses were
in Latin and, vita aut letum! (yes we had to take that subject too!) Faith is a personal issue, and what we believe will be clarified
to us by our Creator as we stand side by side in Judgement on the Last Day, that we can be certain
of!
With love,
Maryah

"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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