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The Bible has errors?

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Reepicheep View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reepicheep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2006 at 7:04am

No, Abuzaid, you are incorrect.  "Two or more" and "more than two" do not have the same meaning.

"Two or more" includes the case of exactly two daughters.

"More than two" excludes the case of exactly two daughters.

Out of curiosity, I checked all the translations I could find, to see how this verse is translated:

- two translations (Yusuf Ali and Hilali Khan) use the phrase "two or more".

- nine translations (Pickthal, Shakir, Irving, Palmer, Sher Ali, Khalifa, Arberry, Rodwell, and Sale) use the phrase "more than two" or similar wording.

Based on this, I've concluded that "more than two" is correct. But it still doesn't explain why Yusuf Ali and Hilali Khan translate the phrase differently.

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BMZ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2006 at 8:47am

Reepicheep,

First, I know you are just pulling legs!

From you: "Clearly, the parts in red contradict each other (since Yusuf Ali includes the case of two daughters, while Pickthal excludes the case of two daughters).  This indicates that there must be two contradictory Arabic manuscripts for this portion of the koran."

Correct?

No, not correct.

You see, there is only one Arabic manuscript of the entire Qur'aan. Qur'aan has been translated in English by Englishmen, an American, an Arab and translators from the Indo-Pak Sub-Continent.

Pickthall was an Englishman while Yusuf Ali was an Indian. Muhammad Ali was the first Muslim from India who did the First translation of Qur'aan in English in 1904 and Shakir, Hilali and others have basically copied him and made some improvements. Yusuf Ali did in 1934.

Now, let me quote you the translation of the same 4:11 from Muhammad Asad, formerly known as Leopold Weiss, a Polish Jew, was extremely knowledgeable and fluent in English, Arabic, Pushto and Urdu. He even went and lived with the tribes of Mecca, just to learn the dialect of Arabic which the Prophet and his people spoke and Qur'aan was delivered in. He mastered it.

Asad translates as: "Concerning (the inheritance of) your children, Allah enjoins (this) upon you; "The male shall have the equal of two females' share; but if there are more than two females, they shall have two-thirds of what (their parents) leave behind; and if there is only one, she shall have one-half thereof."

Reepi, this does not mean there were three manuscripts in Arabic.  

The meanings of Arabic Qur'aan are quite clear to those who read, write and understand Arabic. Were I to translate the same it would have been similar to that of Asad. The fluency in English and Arabic has to be at par to get real close to the meanings.

BMZ

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abuzaid View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abuzaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2006 at 9:08pm

Originally posted by Reepicheep Reepicheep wrote:



- nine translations (Pickthal, Shakir, Irving, Palmer, Sher Ali, Khalifa, Arberry, Rodwell, and Sale) use the phrase "more than two" or similar wording.

Based on this, I've concluded that "more than two" is correct. But it still doesn't explain why Yusuf Ali and Hilali Khan translate the phrase differently.
Yes, its my mistake. Two or more was wrong. In Arabic text its "above two" (fauq ath natain) which means more than two. Yusuf Ali has translated it wrong.

However, their is not proof of two confliting arabic script



Edited by abuzaid
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Reepicheep View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reepicheep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 November 2006 at 6:25am

BMZSP and Abuzaid: so, then, it appears that the inheritance laws for daughters, as outlined in the Koran, are as follows:

 

1 daughter: receives half the estate

2 daughters: doesn't say

3 or more daughters: receives two thirds of the estate

 

This leads to the interesting question: what share of the estate, if any, do two daughters receive?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abuzaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 November 2006 at 8:24pm

Kindly open another thread to discuss this issue. This thread is to discuss errors in bible. So, obviously you started to discuss contradictions in Quran also.

Now, the point you have raised is already cleared. Yusuf Ali has made an error in translation. Thas is the end of story.

Do you find any other contradiction in Quran, let's discuss. But not law of inheritance, not in this thread atleast. Don't try to change the topic of thread for unnecessary arguments.

Regards

 

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Angela View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2006 at 6:27pm

Okay, people, the Bible does not make the claim of being perfect.  Its a COLLECTION of Books versus ONE Book.

The Bible is fallible.  It can be wrong.  There are 66 books in the "accepted" Western Bible.  There are many more books that were rejected by the Council of Nicea.  The Bible itself makes no claims to be perfect.  In fact, the admonishment at the end of Revelations to not add anything to this book, only refers to the Book of Revelations and not to the entire Bible.  But of course, the Patriarchs at Nicea put it at the end of the "New Testament" for a reason.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com has some great resources on the histories of the various books in the compliation that we call the Bible.

Once again, this site has a forum trying to compare apples and oranges.  I challenge that the only way to disprove the assertions of the many authors of the New Testament is to have a core belief and testimony that Muhammed is a Prophet.  Or to believe that Muhammed and the Apostles were lying (in the case of non-Christian, Non-Muslim religions). 

No Muslim can prove to me that Jesus was not the Son of God.  Nor can I prove to them what I believe to be true.  That is the power of belief. 

Instead of focusing on the differences, why don't we focus on what is the same in all three books. (Talmud, Bible and Quran)  We all worship the same God, he is the Supreme Creator.  Why argue about the details?

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Cyril View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyril Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2006 at 8:56am
Originally posted by Angela Angela wrote:

Instead of focusing on the differences, why don't we focus on what is the same in all three books. (Talmud, Bible and Quran)  We all worship the same God, he is the Supreme Creator.  Why argue about the details?



I don't see a "same God" when one is one person and the other one is three persons.
This opinion of saying that religions are all about the same God is exactly the doctrine of Hinduism. In that religion everybody and everything can be God, as the whole universe is God.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarita Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2006 at 9:04am
Originally posted by Angela Angela wrote:

Okay, people, the Bible does not make the claim of being perfect.  Its a COLLECTION of Books versus ONE Book.

The Bible is fallible.  It can be wrong.  There are 66 books in the "accepted" Western Bible.  There are many more books that were rejected by the Council of Nicea.  The Bible itself makes no claims to be perfect.  In fact, the admonishment at the end of Revelations to not add anything to this book, only refers to the Book of Revelations and not to the entire Bible.  But of course, the Patriarchs at Nicea put it at the end of the "New Testament" for a reason.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com has some great resources on the histories of the various books in the compliation that we call the Bible.

Once again, this site has a forum trying to compare apples and oranges.  I challenge that the only way to disprove the assertions of the many authors of the New Testament is to have a core belief and testimony that Muhammed is a Prophet.  Or to believe that Muhammed and the Apostles were lying (in the case of non-Christian, Non-Muslim religions). 

No Muslim can prove to me that Jesus was not the Son of God.  Nor can I prove to them what I believe to be true.  That is the power of belief. 

Instead of focusing on the differences, why don't we focus on what is the same in all three books. (Talmud, Bible and Quran)  We all worship the same God, he is the Supreme Creator.  Why argue about the details?

Actually I have been taught my whole life as a Christian that the Bible is perfect, without error. When I asked why we are not taught about the Council of Nicea, I was told that was political and had nothing to do with the Bible or the faith we have that Jesus Christ is our Savior.

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