IslamiCity.org Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Culture & Community > Arabic Language
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Lettered Arabic
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Lettered Arabic

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
Message
Cyril View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08 May 2006
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 176
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyril Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2006 at 2:39am
Truthseeker

This specific forum is dedicated to the Arabic language. So we are only discussing the meaning of words.
I never said that the word Islam means submission AND peace, because it means only submission, surrender.
I said that to surrender you have to be in a non-aggressive attitude or mood which can relate to the notion of peace. It is difficult to expect a surrender from someone fighting you. You have to wait that he stops fighting before surrendering.
The Islamicity imam says the same. The "peace" translation is in the Semitic root SLM not in its derivative "islaam".

As for studying Arabic I don't use any links. At the moment I am busy with the Quran in Arabic. So I use Grammar books and translations in different languages. If the understanding is not too difficult English or French will do, otherwise I turn to German too.
When I have a specific question about grammar I ask on a language forum, for example the Arabic section of Wordreference.
In two instances I even had to go to our local university at the Arabic language and civilization department to get an answer from scholars.


Back to Top
truthseeker100 View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 12 February 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 68
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthseeker100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2006 at 7:32am

Originally posted by Cyril Cyril wrote:

Truthseeker

This specific forum is dedicated to the Arabic language. So we are only discussing the meaning of words.
I never said that the word Islam means submission AND peace, because it means only submission, surrender.
I said that to surrender you have to be in a non-aggressive attitude or mood which can relate to the notion of peace. It is difficult to expect a surrender from someone fighting you. You have to wait that he stops fighting before surrendering.
The Islamicity imam says the same. The "peace" translation is in the Semitic root SLM not in its derivative "islaam".

As for studying Arabic I don't use any links. At the moment I am busy with the Quran in Arabic. So I use Grammar books and translations in different languages. If the understanding is not too difficult English or French will do, otherwise I turn to German too.
When I have a specific question about grammar I ask on a language forum, for example the Arabic section of Wordreference.
In two instances I even had to go to our local university at the Arabic language and civilization department to get an answer from scholars.


Thank you, Cyril, to clarify what you actually meant.

I did further research and asked an Arabic teacher in my neighborhood. She told me that the root ( S-L-M ) means peace. Even though derived word, Islam, means submission, the meaning of the root word would still have influence over it. So, that way, Islam means submission with peace. Submission with a notion of peace would, therefore, describe what Islam stands for. Even when you are forced to fight in self-defense, you do it in peace, only for the sake of Allah. In Islam, one submits to Allah at all times, in the times of peace, wars, pain, ease etc. to attain peace.

I understand that this thread shouldn’t have been used for this type of discussion. But, I think, it was important to clear the doubt about what Islam means and stands for.

And, behold, with every hardship comes ease:
Qur'an 94: 5
Back to Top
Cyril View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08 May 2006
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 176
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyril Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2006 at 9:23am
Truthseeker

I can only tell you what an Arabic dictionary says.
We know that islaam is the name derived from the verb aslama.

So here is what for example the online Sakhr dictionary says of the different meanings of aslama:

become a Muslim, follow , <>splitString("lout","Ar");lout<>splitString("lower oneself before","Ar");<>splitString("be or become submissive","Ar"); , lower oneself before , be or become submissive , <>splitString("acquiesce","Ar");acquiesce<>splitString("surrender to","Ar"); , surrender to , <>splitString("repress","Ar");repress , <>splitString("takedown","Ar");takedown , <>splitString("surrender","Ar");surrender , <>splitString("submit","Ar");submit , <>splitString("succumb","Ar");succumb , <>splitString("yield","Ar");yield , <>splitString("conquer","Ar");conquer<>splitString("act in abjectness before","Ar");<>splitString("give in","Ar");<>splitString("cringe before","Ar");<>splitString("degrade oneself before","Ar");<>splitString("give oneself over to","Ar");<>splitString("give in to","Ar");<>splitString("defer to","Ar");<>splitString("grovel before","Ar");<>splitString("bow to","Ar");<>splitString("be governed by","Ar");<>splitString("accede to(someone's wishes)","Ar");<>splitString("truckle before","Ar");<>splitString("be or become yielding","Ar");<>splitString("yield to","Ar");<>splitString("stoop to","Ar");<>splitString("succumb to","Ar");<>splitString("submit to","Ar"); , act in abjectness before , give in , cringe before , degrade oneself before , give oneself over to , give in to , defer to , grovel before , bow to , be governed by , accede to(someone's wishes) , truckle before , be or become yielding , yield to , stoop to , succumb to , submit to, betray.

You notice there is no mention of peace.

We can try the same with another derivative from the root SLM, salaama(t), you find in "ma3a s-salaama", a kind of "good bye".

Here is what the Sakhr says:
 
faultlessness , <>splitString("flawlessness","Ar");flawlessness , <>splitString("correctness","Ar");correctness , <>splitString("healthiness","Ar");healthiness , <>splitString("intactness","Ar");intactness , <>splitString("validity","Ar");validity , <>splitString("health","Ar");health , <>splitString("rightness","Ar");rightness.

Again no mention of peace.



Back to Top
truthseeker100 View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 12 February 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 68
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthseeker100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2006 at 10:59am

Originally posted by Cyril Cyril wrote:

Truthseeker

I can only tell you what an Arabic dictionary says.
We know that islaam is the name derived from the verb aslama.

So here is what for example the online Sakhr dictionary says of the different meanings of aslama:

become a Muslim, follow , <>splitString("lout","Ar");lout<>splitString("lower oneself before","Ar");<>splitString("be or become submissive","Ar"); , lower oneself before , be or become submissive , <>splitString("acquiesce","Ar");acquiesce<>splitString("surrender to","Ar"); , surrender to , <>splitString("repress","Ar");repress , <>splitString("takedown","Ar");takedown , <>splitString("surrender","Ar");surrender , <>splitString("submit","Ar");submit , <>splitString("succumb","Ar");succumb , <>splitString("yield","Ar");yield , <>splitString("conquer","Ar");conquer<>splitString("act in abjectness before","Ar");<>splitString("give in","Ar");<>splitString("cringe before","Ar");<>splitString("degrade oneself before","Ar");<>splitString("give oneself over to","Ar");<>splitString("give in to","Ar");<>splitString("defer to","Ar");<>splitString("grovel before","Ar");<>splitString("bow to","Ar");<>splitString("be governed by","Ar");<>splitString("accede to(someone's wishes)","Ar");<>splitString("truckle before","Ar");<>splitString("be or become yielding","Ar");<>splitString("yield to","Ar");<>splitString("stoop to","Ar");<>splitString("succumb to","Ar");<>splitString("submit to","Ar"); , act in abjectness before , give in , cringe before , degrade oneself before , give oneself over to , give in to , defer to , grovel before , bow to , be governed by , accede to(someone's wishes) , truckle before , be or become yielding , yield to , stoop to , succumb to , submit to, betray.

You notice there is no mention of peace.

We can try the same with another derivative from the root SLM, salaama(t), you find in "ma3a s-salaama", a kind of "good bye".

Here is what the Sakhr says:
 
faultlessness , <>splitString("flawlessness","Ar");flawlessness , <>splitString("correctness","Ar");correctness , <>splitString("healthiness","Ar");healthiness , <>splitString("intactness","Ar");intactness , <>splitString("validity","Ar");validity , <>splitString("health","Ar");health , <>splitString("rightness","Ar");rightness.

Again no mention of peace.



Your post is well written, but irrelevant. 

The point is the root, S-L-M, means peace. The influence of "peace" can not be ruled out in the derivative "Islam".

Thank you for your efforts anyway.

And, behold, with every hardship comes ease:
Qur'an 94: 5
Back to Top
Cyril View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08 May 2006
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 176
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyril Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2006 at 12:13pm
Truthseeker

You must thank not me but the Egyptian Sakhr Company. If you think their Arabic scholarship is "irrelevant", then I wonder what can teach you the meaning of Arabic words.
Back to Top
Angel View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 July 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 6641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2006 at 8:30pm
Originally posted by truthseeker100 truthseeker100 wrote:

ISLAM is an Arabic term for Submission to the Will of God. The root of the word Islam, is S-L-M, which also means Peace.

Can we stick to this

My time learning islam, the word means peace. And for the fact that muslims say islam (the religion) is/means peace, therefore goes in line with the meaning of the word.  

So can we now get back to the lettered arabic glossy of terms that this thread was kinda intended for

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
Back to Top
Cyril View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08 May 2006
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 176
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyril Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2006 at 2:56am
Angel

I did not want to go into theological matters but remain in the linguistic realm.

You and Truthseeker do not seem to accept the linguistic fact that the word "islaam" does not mean peace.

As you keep drawing the discussion to a religious level where Islam as a religion is supposed to mean peace, then I can follow suit and ask you what do you think of the many "jihad" verses in the Quran?
If Islam means peace, does it also mean war?
Back to Top
truthseeker100 View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 12 February 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 68
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthseeker100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2006 at 5:42am

Originally posted by Cyril Cyril wrote:

Angel

I did not want to go into theological matters but remain in the linguistic realm.

You and Truthseeker do not seem to accept the linguistic fact that the word "islaam" does not mean peace.

As you keep drawing the discussion to a religious level where Islam as a religion is supposed to mean peace, then I can follow suit and ask you what do you think of the many "jihad" verses in the Quran?
If Islam means peace, does it also mean war?

Anything one does in Islam is by submission to Allah to attain peace. I have already made it clear in my third post.

I agree with Angel that we should stick to the topic.

And, behold, with every hardship comes ease:
Qur'an 94: 5
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.