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need help dealing with polygamy

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taliyya View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote taliyya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 October 2006 at 10:21am

 When you say "one woman is replaced for another", what do you mean? One woman is divorced or one woman is put on the back burner? Also do you mean the second wife complies to be in a polygamous relationship or the first wife passively complies by allowing her husband to take another? About the marriage contract, there are scholars who say that women cannot put anything into the marriage contract preventing the husband from doing what Allah has allowed him to do. They even go so far as to say that a man can agree to those conditions, put them on a contract and then later do what he feels like. So some women will think they're all protected by this contract and it ends up happening anyway. Of course a woman should be informed about the negatives of polygamy. But I don't think that's the problem. We're constantly deluged with the negatives from childhood. Trust me, horror polygamy stories aren't hard to find. So letting people know what they're getting into isn't even an issue.

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Hayfa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hayfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 October 2006 at 10:57am

I once was in a discussion with a  man looking for another wife.  He said his wife was back in Egypt and he needed a 2nd wife here in the states.  I asked him why and he said, companionship, and to help a sister. I said well why don't you marry the poor widow from Afghanistan or Somalia. Why would he want to marry a "well off" sister (myself) who is not destitute. He had no answer really for that.

Then (it gets better)

I asked would he tell his wife beforehand. He said no. He does not have to. (Islamically that is true I suspect.) He said his wife would not like it. THEN he said it was selfish of her to not want her husband to help some "poor" woman who needs help (this is not me but this is one of the main reasons to do so).

THEN I asked

Well should not all men then marry marry these wdows and destitute women. Why is it not then selfish of him to only want one wife. He said it just isn't.

So women are selfish if they do not want to share their husband and men are not (according to his logic) if they do not want to help these women (and have the means to do so.) Go figure.

To a degree Jenni is right. That by participating in a polygamous marriage you are delgating yourself to be outside of society norms. It can put yourself and, most importantly, the children on the outside of the society.  Then again, considering the strange family structures that exist these days (divorces, remarraige, gay parents etc. Nothing is outside of the norm anymore.)  I teach in a school  you cannot define anymore what a family is.  It has less of a societal impact then say 20 years ago. You can live in any large city and no one will think too much about anyone else's situation.

Illegal or legal, I cannot say. But if it is done Islamically (which I think is quite difficult) why not?  I think it is far more serious an issue the trafficing of women and children in the sex trade around the world.

 



Edited by Hayfa
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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abuayisha View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abuayisha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 October 2006 at 11:13am

 When you say "one woman is replaced for another", what do you mean? One woman is divorced or one woman is put on the back burner?

I mean divorce.  What I have seen is likely the first wife will be divorced and in some cases due to pressure from the first wife, he will divorce his new wife.

Also do you mean the second wife complies to be in a polygamous relationship or the first wife passively complies by allowing her husband to take another?

The first wife has little choice except to be informed and assist her husband to think deeply about what is about to undertake, that is if he informs her prior to getting married.  I'm concerned that the first wife having been informed of his intentions to take a second wife does not simply say, 'Ma'sha'Allah.'  If she knows that he is not working or unable to even afford his current responsiblities, she should stongly advise him otherwise.

Second wives really surprise me because generally speaking, no woman wants this situation for herself, so why they willing accept this is very strange to me.  Do they not realize how this will hurt his first family?  Do they even care? Are they so blinded by their desire for him?  These and other issues need to be discussed prior to passively walking into polygamy.

About the marriage contract, there are scholars who say that women cannot put anything into the marriage contract preventing the husband from doing what Allah has allowed him to do. They even go so far as to say that a man can agree to those conditions, put them on a contract and then later do what he feels like. So some women will think they're all protected by this contract and it ends up happening anyway.

This is why the debate is important, because the most reputable scholars, in my humble opinion, do allow for a women to place into her contract her desire not to be placed in a polygamous relationship, and they further state that any man who marries this women must comply or not marry her.

Of course a woman should be informed about the negatives of polygamy. But I don't think that's the problem. We're constantly deluged with the negatives from childhood. Trust me, horror polygamy stories aren't hard to find. So letting people know what they're getting into isn't even an issue.

Oh, but it is an issue Sister, trust me, I speak from a male's perspective.  Men are very fickle.  You have those who are not following their religion, which admonishes against mixing with women.  So at work or otherwise they sometimes under the guise of "dawah" start talking and visiting daily with strange women and this of course affects their hearts.  They begin having desires and before you know it - "well, Allah says I can have up to four wives" on a whim, without thinking they then want to take another wife.  This issue must be frankly discussed and believe me it is not sufficiently discussed amongst men. 

[/QUOTE]

Edited by abuayisha
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abuayisha View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abuayisha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 October 2006 at 11:47am
A wife refusing her husband a co-wife

Question:
Is there any ruling that says in a marraige contract that a wife can refuse her husband a co-wife?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Ibn Qudaamah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his book Al-Mughni:

“If he married her on the condition that he should not make her move from her house or her city, then this condition is valid, because it was reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘The most deserving of conditions to be fulfilled are those by means of which sexual intercourse becomes permissible for you.’ If he married her on the condition that he will not marry another wife, then she has the right to leave him if he does take another wife.” In conclusion, then, the conditions of the marriage contract are divided into three types, one of which must be adhered to, which is of benefit to the wife, such as her being able to stipulate that he cannot make her move from her house or city, or travel with him, or take another wife or a concubine. He has to adhere to these conditions, and if he does not, then she has the right to annul the marriage.” (Al-Mughni by Ibn Qudaamah, part 7, Kitaab al-Nikaah).

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked this question and he replied in Al-Fataawa al-Kubra:

“Question: a man married a woman and she stipulated that he should not take another wife or make her move from her house, and that she could stay with her mother, so he married her on this basis. Does he have to adhere to this, and if he goes against these conditions, does his wife have the right to annul the marriage or not?

Answer: yes, these conditions and similar ones are valid according to the madhhab of Imaam Ahmad and other scholars among the Sahaabah and Taabi’een, such as ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab, ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas, Shurayh al-Qaadi, al-Oozaa’i and Ishaaq. According to the madhhab of Maalik, the condition states that if he marries another wife, (the first wife) has the choice of what to do, and this is a valid condition. The woman has the right to leave him in this case. This is similar to the idea in the Madhhab of Imaam Ahmad. The basis for this is the hadeeth narrated by (al-Bukhaari and Muslim) in al-Saheehayn from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): ‘The most deserving of conditions to be fulfilled are those by means of which sexual intercourse becomes permissible for you.’ ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab said: ‘Rights are in accordance with conditions.’ The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) dictated that the conditions which make sexual intercourse permissible are more deserving of fulfilment than others. This is the ruling on conditions of this nature.”



al-Fataawa al-Kubra, part 3, Kitaab al-Nikaah
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Jenni View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jenni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 October 2006 at 1:31pm
Abuayisha, thanks for your support bro!!!
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.
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rookaiya View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rookaiya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 October 2006 at 6:27am
just checking in to see if there any responses to the topic. need help from brothers on dealing with polygamy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Antony-Islah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2006 at 1:01pm

hope my reply in the other thread may help rookaiya.......

with regard to the issue you have raised here, i am only able to offer my somewhat abstract view, and that is, your husband is not caught but in the illusion of his own spirit.......

a more down to earth response (which i am reluctant to share because of the speculative nature of it) would have me say that, his other wife and you are pulling on him in different directions, so he has become the battleground for each of your grievances….. in which case your husband is not caught but in the illusion of his wives illusions.  

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rookaiya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2006 at 12:09am

salaams

please simplify what u are saying as these points are above my head. u say that hes caught in the illusions of his wives. what do u mean by that. please explain in simple terms cos im not understanding this at all

i get the point u make of him being pulled on either side, i.e by me n the first wife. yes that is happening and he has told me so as well

but the illusion part. are u saying that life as a whole is an illusion and that we need to focus our attentions on more real things like preparing for the hereafter , which is real.

am i making any sense to u at all. i feel so confused now

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