Rights of Women in the Grand Mosque

Bismillah,

In reading both points of view, I favor them not only not taking this right away, but expanding the rights of Muslim women in Saudi to the same level as during our Beloved Prophet's time.

When the brothers want to take away a right, they use all kinds of excuses.  Men and women were both instructed to make Hajj, and none of these "special" arrangements would be approved of by the most wise and circumspect of humans, our dear Prophet Muhammad.

Salaamu Alaykum

Thanks Najam,

I'm grateful to see that its more of a space issue than a sex issue.  When I saw this one on the frontpage of IC, I gave it more weight than if it had been in another paper.  But, its always good to hear the other side.  I find most of the time, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle......

As Islam continues to Grow, the Hajj will continue to increase.  I wonder what will happen in 50-100 years when half the world is Muslim?

In continuation-----------

The religion of Islam was revealed for both men and women. Both sexes are equal when it comes to performing their religious duties and in terms of rewards and punishments. The Prophet (peace be upon him) has instructed that women must not be banned from mosques. Despite these facts, we have observed that the general trend at the two holy mosques is to restrict the prayers of women and limit the areas where they can pray - as if they were a nuisance to others and unsuitable for those holy places. Some even think that the presence of women in the mataf will affect smooth television coverage of prayers inside the mosque and it would be better if the women had been confined to their homes.

The sexes are not equal when it comes to congregational prayers. Men are to pray in the front rows and women at the back rows, women are not allowed to pray alongside men.

However during the time of Hajj, men and women pray together, interspersed with each other, wherever they can find the space. Women are even in the front rows.

I have never seen any trend to restrict women. I feel the two grand mosques are women friendly and child friendly. In the Prophets mosque, there is a womens sections which is further divided into sections for women with kids and women without kids. I have felt this to be a great blessing. Whenever I went to a mosque, I would hate it if my kids created a disturbance to other worshippers and with this new rule, I have a place where there are other moms like me and many times the older children watch and play with the younger ones while the moms pray. Women who are without children and want to pray in quieter surroundings can go to �no kids� section. This does not mean that children are not welcome in the mosque or that they are a nuisance!

We have also seen people widely circulating certain Hadiths, whose authenticity is doubtful, that it was better for women to pray at home than in other places as if the status of the two holy mosques is lower than that of a house. 

Yes, these Hadiths are in circulation and fatwas too which are exhorting women to pray at home. There is a background to this. The Mosques are huge, there is a flourishing �lost children� office in each of them. During prayer, women are absorbed in prayer while the children run around and get lost. In the smaller mosques, children often open the doors and even run out to the street. In this scenario, even I would advice some women with unique circumstances to pray at home as it makes sense and islam makes a concession to them. Secondly, women are not obligated to perform the prayer in congregation and women cannot try to equal men here.

Let us return to the Grand Mosque in Makkah where women are often driven away by officials - both male and female - who tell them to complete their prayers quickly

Men as well as women because the officials want to start organizing rows for prayers about 30 mins before each adhaan and for cleaning.

Here�s another thing that the officials do. They get some volunteers from among the worshippers about 10 mins before each prayer and the volunteers move among the ranks of seated worshippers and offer to take their Qurans and put them away. Most worshippers refuse to comply and want to read the Quran right up until they stand for prayer and many may feel this is wrong and they feel that the officials are denying them the right to read Quran.

BUT this is a big misconception, the wisdom behind doing such is that, people read right till they stand up for prayer and then leave the quran next to them on the floor. Some other person may step on it (it happens a lot) unknowlingly! The Officials or religious police are simply put in bad light because people do not understand the wisdom behind what they do.

and generally interfere with the women's prayers and meditations. At present, women are limited to an enclosed area in the mataf from which, if they are sitting, they are not able to see the Kaaba. The area is small, confined and similar to a prison and is often moved depending on seasonal demands and a variety of justifications. Now the proposal is to remove this prayer area from the mataf once and for all. 

Women are not limited in this area, when it is not time for congregation prayer, no one asks them to move UNLESS they are in someones way. There is an etiquette for prayer and meditation which applied for men and women alike. If someone acts as though he or she is the only one who is present in the Haram and do not respect others convenience, they will and must be asked to move where they wont be a trouble to others.

Women are allowed unlimited access throughout the Haram and there are many places where one can just sit down alone or with their husbands and kids and pray. There are 3 levels which are easily accessible by elevators and ramps and what have you. If you would like to be in peace, one should go to one of the upper levels which give a lovely view of the Kaaba.

Infact, women are never stopped from going into any place. Rather it is the men who are dealt with harshly should they try to go into the womens areas.

My contention is that the panel should have made its proposal without denying the rights of women. In Islam, the only instruction regarding the prayers of women is that they should not pray standing in front of men and, in our times, woman pray in the last rows or on the upper floors of mosques. 
The proposal is based on this very principal. By having an area in the mataf for women, there were men praying behind women and with women having a separate sections, it will ensure that the hadith she refers too is acted upon.

In order to allow women to pray in the Grand Mosque in the proper manner, let us allocate a special area for them beginning from the Kaaba and ending at masaa (the running area between Safa and Marwa). The width of this area could be determined based on field studies conducted by the Haj Research Institute on the number of women who come to pray at the mosque. If this were done, the equality of sexes promulgated by Islam would be achieved. 

Well, my experience throughout has been that there is never any shortage of space for women. Women have never been moved to allow convenience for men, it is the other way around. And women have been given enclosed spaces for those that want to take off the niqaab or rest or nurse their babies. There are open spaces for those that want to sit with the men accompanying them. It�s all a very reasonable and just arrangement. There are great numbers of people to consider and the greater good is always given priority.

It would also protect women from prejudice and ensure that no men prayed behind them. Moreover, women would be able to pray in comfort, sit closer to the Kaaba and achieve maximum devotion and closeness to God.

There is no prejudice. Even with the proposal women can go very close to the Kaaba right up till the door! No one can dare to stop them based on their gender., Even the officials except when the congregational prayer has started. For those women who want to avoid being crushed with men while going close to the kaaba, they simply have to go around 10 Pm when the place is reserved for women.

The picture that this lady has presented of women in the Haram is untrue. Women are neither oppressed or anything like that. I have seen women argue with officials if they were asked to move, women admonishing men who dared to drink from the water fountains exclusively for women.

Also, any regular visitor knows that the Saudi guards are extremely cautious when dealing with women. The culture is that they do not even look up when they talk to women. There are many women that put their prayer mate wherever they like, even in the walkways and the poor gaurds are requesting, �sister please, time for salat� and then quoting hadith about women praying behind men. These sisters are unfazed, they know that these guys can only request while thye take the opportunity of a life time and pray to their hearts fullest!:)

Najamsahar

This report is simply stupid. The rules were changed because of pressing circumstances and though I am usually skeptical of the way the government operates here, I am more surprised at how this journalist has used her skills to present a wrong and baseless argument!

Alhamdulillah I visit the Grand Mosque at least twice a month with my husband and children. One of the Hajj that I was blessed to perform, I did it with a VIP(?) group from US. Part of my second Hajj was with a VIP group from Saudi Arabia and part of it was with the poorest people on the street, InshaAllah I will tell my lovely experiences with these beloved people later.

The major hurdle in controlling the issues of security and discipline is the huge numbers of people, we are talking about hundreds of thousands at any given time in the Haram. At prayer times, we are talking in millions. Add to this the characteristics of pilgrims

-They speak many different languages, English and Arabic speaking pilgrims are rare

-Many are here as a result of years of saving up, this is indeed once in a lifetime opportunity for most. Hence their zeal works up into a frenzy

-They have information which is generally believed to be true but is not. For eg,After the seven circuits of tawaf, the pilgrim prays are maqqm e ibrahim, true. But these days, the circle of people that are doing the tawaf is so big that this particular place is taken up by them. Now if a pilgrim insists on doing the rakats at this place, he/she is creating a potential for stampede. There are many fatwas and the scholars are unanimous that if there is a crowd and if a person fears that praying at this place will cause harm to himself and others, praying anywhere else is perfectly acceptable.

-They refuse to follow rules. The religious police ask for very simple things, �don�t pray in walkways,

don�t pray where people are doing tawaf,

don�t stand for long periods of time praying at hateem and other strategic places and allow others a chance as well.�

I have seen people simply refuse to understand and they think that this is their right as they are praying, they do not realize how much they are becoming a hindrance to others�

These are the basic flaws in the above article

The main problem of this proposal is that it denies Muslim women the right to pray at the holiest place on Earth, near the Holy Kaaba, where prayers are answered and where the faithful can achieve better devotion and closeness to God. This is also one of the factors that differentiate prayer at the Grand Mosque from prayer performed in hotels overlooking it. Throughout Islamic history - from the earliest days of Islam - women have never been banned from praying inside the mataf or any other parts of the two holy mosques. There have, however, been many recent restrictions on women praying and this new proposal is simply further evidence of this. 

This restriction is only for the time of the congregation prayer. Five times a day and 10 minutes max each time. The other times women can go as close to the kaaba as they want to.

There is no saying that mataf is the place where prayers as answered. The place of prayers being answered is about 5 meters wide near the Kaaba door, After the Isha prayer, men are restricted from going there and women can go and pray etc. The place is so crowded, it is hard to breathe. People are crushed against each other.

 The ruling for differentiation of prayer from other places is �that one is considered part of the congregation of the Haram as long as the space between the rows is not 2-rows away� During Hajj and ramadhan, the rows of worshippers extends from the first row right in from of the kaaba door through the mataf, though the three levels of the contructed areas, through the parapets and then the rows spill onto the streets, one kerbs and everywhere, the numbers are stagerring. The person about a mile away is not deficient in his worship when compared to the one in the mataf.

Also, if we look at the stats