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PROPHECY OF JESUS IN BIBLE

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Kariim25 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 August 2006 at 7:00pm
PROPHECY OF JESUS ABOUT ISLAM / MOHAMMED (peace be upon him), AND JESUS TOLD ABOUT “PEOPLE OF THE BOOK”-RELIGIONS (in Qur´an 600 years later!), AND TIME-SCHEDULE OF THOSE, AND TOLD ORDER OF THOSE RELIGIONS WITH DESCRIPTIONS: (Allah knows best)


(These two "hidden prophecy" are connected to Luke.5:36-39, why new religion is necessary instead of change of old religions.)

1 "hour" = approx. 200 hundred years, from Abraham/Jacob 1800-1700 BC (and so Jewish-religion 1600 BC->) to Islam 632 AC = 2400 years / 12 hours = 200 years

Matt.20:1. "For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner (God) who went (send prophets) out early in the morning (before "first hour" of 12 hours of day in Jewish calendar, so Abraham/Jacob 1800-1700 BC and Jews as a religion after them in "first hour" 1600-1400 BC) to hire men (believers) to work (for His glory) in his vineyard (Earth). 2. He agreed to pay them a denarius (paradise) for the day (world history) and sent them into his vineyard.

3. "About the third hour (1300/1200-1100 BC Sabians/Zarathustrians, even in Bible there is two "Sabians" in opposite directions, another possibly in South-Iraq) he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing (Judaism had not spread much outside their own Jewish nation). 4.He told them, 'You also (besides Judaism) go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.' 5. So they went.

"He went out again about the sixth hour (600 BC beginning of prophesies about Messiah) and the ninth hour (around 1 AC Jesus were born) and did the same thing (created Christians and Christianity, notice simple description as Jesus is speaking about religion most connected to himself).

6. ABOUT (not exactly 400-600 AC) the eleventh hour (Prophet Mohammed, peace be upon him: 570-632 AC) he went out (send prophet) and found still others (Arabs) standing around. He asked them, 'Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing (Arabs had not had religions through prophets, only polytheism-paganism)?'

7. " 'Because no one has hired us (Arabs were so despised that even Byzantium or Persia did not want to conquer and convert them),' they answered."He said to them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard.'


8. "When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Call the workers and pay them their wages (what they deserve), beginning with the last ones hired (Muslims) and going on to the first (Jews).'

9. "The workers (Muslims) who were hired about the eleventh hour (500-700 AC) came and each received a denarius. 10. So when those came who were hired first (Jews), they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11. When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner (God). 12. 'These men who were hired last (Muslims) worked only one hour,' they said, 'and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day (persecutions, slavery, occupations).'

13. "But he answered one of them, 'Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? 14. Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15. Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous (you want to keep God for your nation only, as a "chosen people")?'


16. "So the last (Muslims) will be first, and the first (Jews) will be last."

[Prophet Mohammed, peace be upon him, said that even though he was last of prophets, and Muslims are last of believers, they will be first to enter paradise, "last will be first"]


KORAN: 2:62

(Translation of) YUSUFALI: "Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. "


KORAN: 2:105


(Translation of) YUSUFALI: "It is never the wish of those without Faith among the People of the Book, nor of the Pagans, that anything good should come down to you from your Lord. But Allah will choose for His special Mercy whom He will - for Allah is Lord of grace abounding."

(NOTICE THAT “PEOPLE OF THE BOOK” CAN REFER TO ALL PEOPLE [WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE ABOUT ISLAM] F.EX. IN CHRISTIAN SOCIETIES, BELIEVERS OR NOT, BECAUSE ALLAH DOES NOT DEMAND BELIEVING INTO LIES)



------------------------------------------------ ---------- --------


1 "year" = approx. 600 years, from Abraham / Jacob 1800/1700 (and so later Jews) to Islam 632 AC = 2400 years / 4 "year" = 600 years


Luke.13:6. Then he told this parable: "A master (God) had a fig tree (symbol of Israel in Bible), planted in his vineyard (Earth), and he went to look for fruit (results) on it, but did not find any. 7. So he said to the man (Jesus) who took care of the vineyard (Judaism "only true religion"/least corrupted religion in the world in times of Jesus), 'For three (3*600 = 1800) years now I've been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven't found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil (why not to do better religion)?'

8. " 'Sir,' the man replied, 'leave it alone for one (1*600) more year(s), and I'll dig around it and fertilize it (make world ready for Islam, also in Middle-East, "around" Israel as in [Christian] Arabia/Egypt/Syria). 9. If it bears fruit next year (in 600 years), fine! If not, then cut it down (Judaism and so also its sect/branch Christianity, from way of Islam, after that “year”, 600 years, passed after Jesus to death of Mohammed, pbuh, almost excactly 600 years later in 632AC).' "
-----------------------------------------

MY CALCULATIONS IN Matt.20:1-16

There is no mentioning if workers came in what part of each "hour"

("about") 11th = 400-600 AC, Islam 570-632AC (to beginning of 12th)
10th = 200-400 AC
9th = 1 AC-200 AC (Christianity 32 AC ->)
8th = 200 BC- 1 AD
7th = 400 BC-200 BC
6th = 600 BC-400 BC (Messiah prophesied)
5th = 800 BC-600 BC
4th = 1000 BC- 800 BC
3th = 1200-1000 BC (Sabians / Zarathustrians)
2nd = 1400 BC-1200 BC
1st = 1600 BC-1400 BC (Early Jews)
"0-hour" = 1800 BC-1600 BC. ("Early in the morning he went", not actually INSIDE first hour, Jewish religion was practically born only after Jacob etc. in 1600 BC-1400 BC)


Well, Jesus did not go to practice math in schools. This is not math-exam, but for people to understand some idea. And maybe he being just a human, who makes errors and has somewhat limited knowledge, is reason also to why there is least "error-marginale" (+ - inside 200 years) in places of parallel connected to himself and Christianity.

MY CALCULATIONS IN Luke 13:6-9

Maybe Israel AS AN OFFICIAL STATE (eventhough part of Rome and so not state) was "cut down" 70 AC, but Jewish religion and its sect Christianity did not "expire" as a (right) religions before Islam came 600 years after Jesus (Jesus 32 AC - Mohammed 632 AC) from point of Islam. Israel itself as a state have no importance for God without its religion, do you Christians agree that from Bible?

Israel (that "tree") is not subject anymore after its cutting down (in 600 AC), but ground around it. "Ground around it" is symbol for spiritual, geological, historical and religious connection between semitistic Islamic and Jewish religions. But before it (before Islam, those last 600 years that were given extra-time) Jewish-tree has opportunity to grow fruits "next year". Obviously it did not do so as God created Islam. All that tree produced during that "year" (600 years) was form of Christianity that worshipped Jewish prophet as a god. From Jewish view those are not good fruits.

Could be said that after "Tree of Judaism was cut down" according to Jesus, he became only a prophet of Muslims, and so now he (with Bible) is kind of "mole/spy" of Islam in areas where Islam was not to be spread so much (as in India or China for example). All those areas are under "hidden" power of Islam through Jesus now (there is in hadiths prophecy of Mohammed, be be upon him, that he saw power of Islam stretching from west to east in the future).

More questions for Christians refusing this interpretation:

Some would say that verses in Matt.20:1-16 question actually point to divine generosity that transcends human ideas of fairness. Yes it can do that TOO (although first group complaining about payment because of extra-work and master getting furious about it does not really support it), but it is far more complex and long for that alone. It would have just be easy to say that master gives denar for workers, and that’s it.

Most popular Christian interpretation is that here Jesus told how disciples were hired in "early in the morning" and in "third" hour as apostles (it does not make sense at all, as all disciples were "hired" at once by Jesus, not in two time periods, and why would apostles be unhappy about later Christians entering also paradise, even before them, as they were one to convert them?), and that from "sixth" to "ninth" hour is about apostle Paul (again, why it would have been said to happen between these two time-periods, and not just in one?), and that in last hour is talked about all later Christians (who will come "first even though they were last", why would they enter paradise before apostles, and especially why would apostles go mad about them going one second before them into paradise, as all mentioned in parallel are saved anyway?).


Some say this Luke.13:6-9 is just numerical games. So tell me more reasonable and as compatible explanation. Fig tree is symbol of Judaism generally in Bible. Also when Jesus cursed fig tree in Matt.21:19 by words "may no fruit ever come from you again", he probably stated that no more prophets are going to come from Jews. And why time schedule fits so well in both of these religions, did Jesus not know about coming of Islam or did he not care how these will look?

Edited by Kariim25
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More about Bible:

Luke.12:51-52 “Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three.”

So house of Abraham is divided because of different beliefs on Jesus, mainly to 3 Christian religions (Orthodox, Catholics, Protestants) and to two Islamic religions (Sunni and Shiite). And it has NOT been denyed that these could battle even with other sects among themself, but most commonly conflicts have happened between Islam and Christianity.

Some Christians say this is about sacrifice inside real families (as in elsewhere there is used words as "mother against daughter") in case of "conversions" to another religions. Otherwise good explanation (in fact differences/similarities between "household" and f.ex. "daughter" can be seen to tell us that comparation between households and relationship with followers of other religions), but there has not been much such controversity and diversity in Christian-countries since emperor of Rome declared Christianity as only allowed religion. After that invaded areas in America, Africa and Asia have been efficiently converted, so giving protection for "converts" even from their own family. In modern secularism atheistics/traditional-believers usually could not care less if their child would like to celebrate (by singing etc.) Jesus. But in (now dominantly) Muslim-countries shift from Christian majority to Muslim majority took centuries, and so made accepting Islam very hard (even though only real dispute with Christians is position of Jesus, it might be reason why Jesus gave these words of comfort for those who are accepting Islam). Also "terrorism" and generally bad public image of Muslims has made even secular parents to panic if their children/partner finds Islam (yes, my mother too did so...).

Matt.12:26-27 Jesus told us that Islam can not be from satan, as it directs worshipping and bowing to God of Abraham, reason why satan fall from heaven, and so would never tell to do so. Even Jesus spoke about God of Abraham, “Father”, not about Jehovah for example. And “I am truth, way, and life” does not mean Jesus was god, but a prophet who taught TRUTH in monotheistic teaching about one God (f.ex. Mark.12:29 and Luke.4:8), who gave us WAY and example in worshipping on knees face to ground (Matt.26:39) and being totally submitting to God, and all this will give LIFE (comfort and paradise). All Muslims have to believe in Jesus TOO to be Muslim (Jesus said, no Muslim will be saved but through (ALSO) him (as trough all prophets).

Matt.21:43 "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”

As Jesus told (to ALL people who were there, so “Christians”, his followers, also, not just to priests who even might not be there then anymore, but left him after he answered theirs question much earlier), Jews (and its sect Christianity as it is based only to Jewish nation) lost kingdom of God when it was given to Arabs, ONE nation (Christianity is not based on other single nation but Jews).

More debate about this:
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64807&page=3 &pp=20

Here Jesus announced that He has been send to direct those few chosen (usually) Christians by Bible to Islam and eventually to Muslim-countries:

John.10:16 ”I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen (offspring of Ishmael, not Isaac-Jewish). I must bring them also (Jesus in Quran and monotheism/prophesies in Bible). They too will listen to my voice (same message), and there shall be one flock and one shepherd (monotheistic believers and prophets teaching about one God, now only Islam).”

Matt.18:12-14 “What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the MOUNTAINS and go and search for the one that is straying? If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. In the same way, my Father in heaven does not want one of these little children to be lost.”

Luke.15:4-7 “What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the DESERT (open pasture) and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? When he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbours, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost! I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. “

Here words (leaving other sheep’s at SAFELY HOME in) “MOUNTAINS” and “DESERT” describe general nature in Muslim-countries near Christian countries.

Some Christians may say that these are Christians who are "directed to home by death of Jesus", but here Jesus confirmed that if Christians (99+1 sheeps) are in "true religion", then he did not come for them in general, but for (future) Muslims (that +1):

Matt.9:12-13 “But when Jesus heard this, He said, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are SICK. But go and learn what this means: 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Luke.9:56 “for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.”


So Jesus WAS (prophesied) king, Messiah, he divided Rome to east and west by religious differences (about power), Muslims got East Rome because of that, Byzantium. And he “sacrificed” for sake of both Muslims and Christians, but he did not need to make it to forgive all sins of mankind, but perhaps only in describing way (for example that all who will find Islam get to start with no sins again). If Europe, America and Africa had remind in paganism and with ruler-gods, persecution for Muslims would have been much worse than it was for Christians, who did not have such strict demand for total monotheism. With saints for example Christianity were able easily to be one to replace pagan-god´s in Europe (god was replaced by saint, holidays with Christian holidays), America and Africa, and so did bring them again closer to Islam (by Bible and prophets, even by nominal "monotheism"). In Africa f.ex. Islam did not make much advance in rainforests before colonial-time and Christianity, and many Africans accepted Islam even as a protest against colonial-powers.

12:39 "He answered, ´A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
40. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.´

Jesus was understood to be dead by all but God as he said that he will be "gone", so "dead" for disciples f.ex., and so came true prophecy about his "death" (human-view), and also words of Qur´an about him not dying into crusificsion by Jews (what Allah knows). So in fact Jesus gave for some part of people in the World "postponed"/"delayed" judgment as a "people without knowledge" (like illiterate people dictated by church and interpretations of priests about Bible, translations from Qur´an came for Christians mostly in modern times), until Islam and knowledge reached them too (f.ex. by internet and immigration, immigration of Muslims into Christian countries accepted also because even Jesus immigrated too and told to "invite others in").

There is reason for existence of Christianity, and there is reason why Jesus is coming back: To direct his "owns" back into Truth again. Over 50% of world population are either Christians or Muslims, and only real difference between them is about position of Jesus. In Africa 50% of population are Muslims, in Asia 33%, there lives most poor people, and even Jesus and Qur´an both told that some have their share in this life, and some in next life (and some in both). Could be said that after "Tree of Judaism was cut down" according to Jesus, he became only a prophet of Muslims, and so now he (with Bible) is kind of "mole/spy" of Islam in areas where Islam was not to be spread so much (as in India or China for example). All those areas are under "hidden" power of Islam through Jesus now (there is in hadiths prophecy of Mohammed, be be upon him, that he saw power of Islam stretching from west to east in the future).

Matt.22:45 “If then David calls him 'Lord,' how can he (Jesus) be his son?"

Here only possibility could be that spirit of Jesus were born before David, and so Jesus was in “high rank” compared to David (Jesus is most mentioned prophet in Qur´an). Idea about Jesus being son of David, from descent of David, refutes idea about actual “son of God”, as if Jesus had no human father, then he did not have genetically background in David who was relative of Joseph. So why would God be his genetic father then, if even David was not?





Isaiah prophesied Christianity and Islam:

http://www.southafrica.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6126


JESUS GAVE WARNING ABOUT " APOSTLE " PAUL ( AND MODERN CHRISTIANITY ) WITH DESCRIPTIONS GOING ALONG WITH HIS (PAUL´S) WORDS AND ACTIONS:

http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/koran/index.blog?topic_id=102 1117

 

Edited by Kariim25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kariim25 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2006 at 10:19pm
Do we have any christians in this forum who would be willing to start debate with me about Bible, and especially about these parts and interpretations?

I have been visiting different forums for a year now, and I can say that they have usually gone completely silent or started personal attacks (or attacking against Islam in all other kinds of subjects) without even touching my writing, not even with a long stick.

Just wonder that could it be, that when I were founding Islam and started to read bible again with different view, I just happened to got it correct right in the first time and understood it as it should have been understood?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2006 at 4:11am

Hi Kariim,

I hope George, Annie and Katherine read your invitation and come back. They are good. If no Christian friends turn up, you can start with me.

However, I am a Muslim like you, who loves to explain the Bible to my Christian friends on Christian sites.  

Best Regards

BMZ

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KORAN: 2:62


(translation of) YUSUFALI: Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.


KORAN: 2:105


(Translation of) YUSUFALI: "It is never the wish of those without Faith among the People of the Book, nor of the Pagans, that anything good should come down to you from your Lord. But Allah will choose for His special Mercy whom He will - for Allah is Lord of grace abounding."


I think this is something very important to be added to this parallel of Jesus in Gospel of Matthew.

 

Question for Christians (and all others):

 

If it would have been case that prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him) "put into Koran" these "People of the Book"-nations just to match it with these parallels, why he did not mention about this connection even with a single word?

He tried to get Jews and Christians to accept Islam with so much effort, wouldn´t this kind of using of their own writings had been most efficient way to do that?

Of course he (peace be upon him) knew connection, he was a prophet. But there is principles more important, and in Islam it is simply about accepting that there is only one God and one God only. And about accepting all the prophets. Simple as that. Either you believe it (=Allah will make you believe it), or you don´t. Nothing else matters.

Everything else is just extra.

And of course it might have been also case that realizing these parallels were ment to happen in this time, when high literature, internet, media and television offers all possible information about Islam, so everybody will have to choose their religion, there is no excuses anymore (but for few "people without knowledge", like childrens, disabled persons, or people living in remote corners of Africa/Asia/Jungles where there is no information about Islam).

Allah most propably saved (at least most of) f.ex. Medieval Christians, who could not even read Bible, but were dictated by priests who also kept them without information about Islam and even gave false information about it (f.ex. about "worshipping Mohammed himself as a god").

 

It is time, my friends. For some reason this part has come for me to cary on.






 

Jesus prophesied Islam also in Gospel of Luke, even Diaspora of Jews and ending of Judaism (and its branch Christianity):

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6446& ; ;PN=2

 

Other prophecies of Jesus in Bible:

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6445& ; ;PN=2

 

 

 

Isaiah prophesied Christianity and Islam:

http://www.southafrica.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6126


JESUS GAVE WARNING ABOUT " APOSTLE " PAUL ( AND MODERN CHRISTIANITY ) WITH DESCRIPTIONS GOING ALONG WITH HIS (PAUL´S) WORDS AND ACTIONS:

http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/koran/index.blog?topic_id=102 1117




Edited by KariimFinland
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Kariim,

Anything can be found in the Bible is you look hard enough.  My own faith can tell you that our prophet was foreordained in the Bible.  Unfortunately, I don't believe you'll get a decent debate from the mainstream Christians here unless Servetus and/or DavidC are able to contribute.  Most others are quite rude and hardheaded, refusing to accept anything more came after Jesus Christ's resurrection.

They reject all Prophet's after Jesus because he fulfilled the law. But, I'll give your posts a read later when I'm not so busy and see what I can come up with for you.  Unfortunately, I work fulltime and I'm a full time student.  (I'm also coming from a non-Traditional Christian Teaching.)

From which I will start.... 

Quote So house of Abraham is divided because of different beliefs on Jesus, mainly to 3 Christian religions (Orthodox, Catholics, Protestants) and to two Islamic religions (Sunni and Shiite). And it has NOT been denyed that these could battle even with other sects among themself, but most commonly conflicts have happened between Islam and Christianity.

There are Eastern Orthodox and Catholic, Protestant, Restorationist, Evangelical, and many more....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Christian-lineage.png

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Originally posted by Angela Angela wrote:

Kariim,

Anything can be found in the Bible is you look hard enough.  My own faith can tell you that our prophet was foreordained in the Bible.  Unfortunately, I don't believe you'll get a decent debate from the mainstream Christians here unless Servetus and/or DavidC are able to contribute.  Most others are quite rude and hardheaded, refusing to accept anything more came after Jesus Christ's resurrection.


If anything can be found from Bible, why are you then not accepting Islam? Why christianity, that has been formed into its modern form during centuries from completely different (see my link about "apostle" Paul above)? Of course there is prophet Jesus prophecied in Bible, but not all of those might not have been just about him.... (eventhough he was most important prophet for Jews/pagans and most mentioned prophet in Koran).

Could God blame you from that decision, if even He gave so much evidence and room for interpretations on behalf of Islam? After all, He is one who made those events/writins/arguements to happen, and even then did let Islam to come dominant and most spreaded religion in the world. Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) fought many wars to defend himself and few Muslims, and of course Islam, totally outnumbered. If Islam was not God´s will, why did He not end it (as He promised in Deutrenomy 18:20 to put into death all false prophets that do not speak in His name or prophets who speak what they have not been allowed to)?

Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) could have been killed easily, he got amazing victories outnumbered, and even after his death Islam was weak. But he united Arabia and got it to accept Islam. He finished Koran in 23 years, giving ending sentence just before his death. He completed his mission as well as possible. Why did not God kill him when it mattered something, if he was a false prophet? And now, formely christian Egypt, North-Africa and Middle-East is Islamic. Still excisting small christian minorities testifies that there was no forcebly conversations (christians would have left to Europe/Byzantium), just gradual Islamisation during 1400 years.

Prophecies of Koran came true very soon after prophets (pbuh) death, and also hadiths (and are still coming true). Why then on earth Deut.18:21-22 gives as a sign about genuine prophet prophecies that come true, and do not fail?

Same Deut.18:15 and 18-19 describes prophet Mohammed, prophet that everybody will have to listen (=last prophet). If he is "prophet like Moses", there is no room for Christian interpretation about Jesus mentioned there, even just because Moses was not god. There is even mentioning about God "putting words into prophets mouth", and that is how Koran was recitated and then written down.

Do you still see difference between (stupid) interpretation and between (reasonable) INTERPRETATION? What are your evidence so that I should follow your interpretation?

If it would be possible, there is so much errors and parts supporting Islam in Bible, that I could sue God into court if He would put me into hell because of that. And I would won. That is Bible, I know much about it as a former "christian",(in a monoteistic sense).

And I would also enjoy asking from your "god" (descented to earth as thousands of others before him, in India f.ex.) that why he did not mention it clearly that he is God and one to worship, but instead said that "only God you shall worship" (Luke 4:8) and that "your God is ONE God" (Mark.12:29)? There could be some explaining to do if he would punish me from what he told me to do.

Don´t you get the joke, how obvious this thing is?

Believe me, I have had many debates about various parts of what Jesus said/did, and I have always won. Bible is big book. "Jeesus-god" did not obviously think that, or did he?

Originally posted by Angela Angela wrote:

They reject all Prophet's after Jesus because he fulfilled the law. But, I'll give your posts a read later when I'm not so busy and see what I can come up with for you.  Unfortunately, I work fulltime and I'm a full time student.  (I'm also coming from a non-Traditional Christian Teaching.)

From which I will start....

Matt.5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

There is contradiction:


You christians think that Jesus fulfilled law so that it would not have to be observed anymore. So in other words it would be abolished.

But Jesus said that it will not be, and that it will not even change. How do you explain that? Reason is simple, it is here:

20. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

It is about ways of following laws, and of course Jesus as an almost perfect human being (prophet, or for you a god) fulfilled law as well as it could be fulfilled. He gave us an example to follow.

Otherwise he would have been speaking against his own words, "Do not judge and you will not be judged", do you think that he would have had any right to criticise following of law(s) by other people if he would not have been perfect in it by himself?


Modern interpretation about this comes from later developement of christianity after Jesus, and even as a "christian" I were not able to understand why anything else but what Jesus said by himself is important.

I STRONGLY RECOMMEND you to take a look at my link about "apostle" Paul, I show you there undeniable evidence from gospels that Jesus warned about him in very accurate descriptions fitting Paul and his actions. It will explain this "fulfilled"-thing too.


This "Judge"-thing goes also for those christians who even does not wanna believe into any other religion but into where they get most "easiest way to heaven" without doing nothing (or even by doing bad if they have regretted/ confessed / believed enough / prayed for forgiveness). And where they judge? Excuses reach from terrorists to head-scarves (would not think you can combine these two). There is always something, and they not willing to study things turn their back (to Jesus and his command).



Quote So house of Abraham is divided because of different beliefs on Jesus, mainly to 3 Christian religions (Orthodox, Catholics, Protestants) and to two Islamic religions (Sunni and Shiite). And it has NOT been denyed that these could battle even with other sects among themself, but most commonly conflicts have happened between Islam and Christianity.

Originally posted by Angela Angela wrote:

There are Eastern Orthodox and Catholic, Protestant, Restorationist, Evangelical, and many more....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Christian-lineage.png



Biggest (dominating) religions are those 5 (2 Islamic, 3 christian) I mentioned. All others are  lower branches from those, or too small even to mention. With thousands of religions, do you think that Jesus should have given his whole family-line here (besides mother, daughter, so on)?

All eastern christians (from Russia to Coptis in Egypt/Ethiopia) can be said to be orthodox-christians, similarities are clear, history is very much common and they are about same age even.

Protestants can be (and usually are in statistics) counted as a single group. All of those groups have roots in catholism and reformation. But it became more than a branch, it separated from catholic church. And it is also very big religion.

Catholics are catholics. Did you notice that Pope has now same position as a Japanian emperor, spiritual councelor, as both used to be god´s? Funny thing, Allah gives us signs if we notice those....
 
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DavidC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2006 at 6:28am
Hi Kareem,

I'm a Christian and I'll give it a shot.  But I have to ask you a couple questions first.

1) It is rare to find a Muslim who believes in the Bible.  How did you come to believe that what you mention is genuine prophecy and not the "corruption" I hear so much about here?

2) Why do you seek further evidence of Muhummad's prophethood?  


Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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