Muslim Communities in the USA?

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    I think it is very hard for many American to understand the US has actively done harm in other lands. And no it is not all against military personnel. That is what the US government SAYS. It tells this to the people so they do not look in horror at what we have done. 
One point in recent history is the US bombing of two sovereign nations: Laos and Cambodia. The US dropped more bombs on Laos then any country had received in HISTORY. 
Patty, this is not about you, but the fact remains that many people here either do not see, or do not want to see what the US foreign policy has done. We want democracy but support horrible dictators, we do not support democracies when they do not do what we say. So the language is being manipulated.   We tell our people we are trying to "save" people but the methodology is in question. Our view that our way must be the only way to live. That IS what most Americans think. And some feel it is our right to impose ourselves into other arenas.. but only when it suits us. The question is the arbitrariness of the US government foreign policy. 
I do not agree with Pat Buchanon the right wing guy. But he was one of the few people who asked "why did they do this after 9/11" and rightly he said it had to do with our foreign policy in the region. Our one-sided support of Israel, our bases in these countries, our randomness of supporting people like Saddam for years or the Saudi government (which is not known for their �democracy.�)
I am currently reading a very good book called The Wake of War: encounters with the People of Iraq and Afghanistan, by Anne Nivat.
In this book she travels throughout the two countries since the US invasions interviewing average people. A few quotes:
�They indecently supported Saddam until the invasion of Kuwait. Before that, they intentionally incited him to start the war against Iran to weaken us. Saddam was an abomination, but now we�re under occupation by individuals who obviously don�t understand us. Is that better?�
�We have bee extremely confused by what has happened since the �liberation�. We thought no one could be worse than Saddam Hussein, and we were wrong.�
�The lack of security is frightening, and there are explosions and murders daily. The kings of Baghdad are the Americans and the looters.�
One of the main themes that all these people say is that they do not like to be occupied and they feel a strong sense of disrespect by the Americans, for them as people, their culture their religion. 
People see the US as a rogue nation unwilling to work with other people. Many people around the world did not have anything really bad to say about Americans but they cannot understand the support give to the current regime. How did people vote for this current group and do not complain. Then they must agree with the policies. 
Yes 9/11 was a tragedy. But there are tons like it everyday. How many children are starving? How many people were killed in war or landmines? We focus on 9/11 cause it happened to us. And there was an arrogance to it that was broken cause the US people felt separate from the rest of the world. What was going on �over there� did not affect us. �How dare they attack us!� That is why I think Europeans, as a whole, are less likely to want war as they have had world wars on their soil and know first hand how terrible war is.
9/11 is no worse then the other tragedies that befall people all over the world. Ask an Armenian about all the Armenians who died in the early part of last century. Ask the Rwandans. Ask the Cambodians. Ask the people of Chechnya. Ask the people of Tibet. Ask the people of Angola. Ask the native people of Mexico and other lands of the Americas. Ask the people of Vietnam. Ask the people of Uganda and the US support of Ida Amin. As about the US and European nuclear tests on islands in the pacific and what happened to the people there.  Some of this is far more horrific then 9/11 in my opinion. 
The crimes against other people abound all over. 9/11 was a tragedy. So are so many other things that are happening. 

Edited by Hayfa

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Hayfa Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Female Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2368	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hayfa Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 August 2006 at 9:03pm
	I think it is very hard for many American to understand the US has actively done harm in other lands. And no it is not all against military personnel. That is what the US government SAYS. It tells this to the people so they do not look in horror at what we have done. One point in recent history is the US bombing of two sovereign nations: Laos and Cambodia. The US dropped more bombs on Laos then any country had received in HISTORY. Patty, this is not about you, but the fact remains that many people here either do not see, or do not want to see what the US foreign policy has done. We want democracy but support horrible dictators, we do not support democracies when they do not do what we say. So the language is being manipulated. We tell our people we are trying to "save" people but the methodology is in question. Our view that our way must be the only way to live. That IS what most Americans think. And some feel it is our right to impose ourselves into other arenas.. but only when it suits us. The question is the arbitrariness of the US government foreign policy. I do not agree with Pat Buchanon the right wing guy. But he was one of the few people who asked "why did they do this after 9/11" and rightly he said it had to do with our foreign policy in the region. Our one-sided support of Israel, our bases in these countries, our randomness of supporting people like Saddam for years or the Saudi government (which is not known for their �democracy.�) I am currently reading a very good book called The Wake of War: encounters with the People of Iraq and Afghanistan, by Anne Nivat. In this book she travels throughout the two countries since the US invasions interviewing average people. A few quotes: �They indecently supported Saddam until the invasion of Kuwait. Before that, they intentionally incited him to start the war against Iran to weaken us. Saddam was an abomination, but now we�re under occupation by individuals who obviously don�t understand us. Is that better?� �We have bee extremely confused by what has happened since the �liberation�. We thought no one could be worse than Saddam Hussein, and we were wrong.� �The lack of security is frightening, and there are explosions and murders daily. The kings of Baghdad are the Americans and the looters.� One of the main themes that all these people say is that they do not like to be occupied and they feel a strong sense of disrespect by the Americans, for them as people, their culture their religion. People see the US as a rogue nation unwilling to work with other people. Many people around the world did not have anything really bad to say about Americans but they cannot understand the support give to the current regime. How did people vote for this current group and do not complain. Then they must agree with the policies. Yes 9/11 was a tragedy. But there are tons like it everyday. How many children are starving? How many people were killed in war or landmines? We focus on 9/11 cause it happened to us. And there was an arrogance to it that was broken cause the US people felt separate from the rest of the world. What was going on �over there� did not affect us. �How dare they attack us!� That is why I think Europeans, as a whole, are less likely to want war as they have had world wars on their soil and know first hand how terrible war is. 9/11 is no worse then the other tragedies that befall people all over the world. Ask an Armenian about all the Armenians who died in the early part of last century. Ask the Rwandans. Ask the Cambodians. Ask the people of Chechnya. Ask the people of Tibet. Ask the people of Angola. Ask the native people of Mexico and other lands of the Americas. Ask the people of Vietnam. Ask the people of Uganda and the US support of Ida Amin. As about the US and European nuclear tests on islands in the pacific and what happened to the people there. Some of this is far more horrific then 9/11 in my opinion. The crimes against other people abound all over. 9/11 was a tragedy. So are so many other things that are happening. Edited by Hayfa
	When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi

Hanan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 27 July 2006 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 1035	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hanan Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 August 2006 at 9:21pm
	Patty wrote: I'm very tired and need to rest for now. Since my Dad passed away I have a difficult time sleeping. Your words may or may not be true, but I know something that is definitely true: There are thousands of weary and tired women in Afghanistan, Iraq and Lebanon tonight without the luxury of a bed to lay down on to rest. There are thousands of children in those countries who�s fathers have died and no one has the strength to comfort them when they have difficulty sleeping. There are fathers, mothers and children who are the sole survivors of their families, who don�t have YOUR fortune of soliciting and receiving sympathy for their plight. You write: My government makes MANY mistakes, but flying commercial jets into skyscrapers filled with ONLY INNOCENT people is not one of them. Stop with that excuse already. By excuse I mean �excuse for the bushtes to invade Afghanistan.� Just because America hasn�t flown airplanes into buildings gives you the high ground? You know perfectly well that America doesn�t have to employ such a crude method of killing, and if they had to, they would. You write: When we go to war, it is to fight with the other military personnel...not the civilians.* The Taliban in Afghanistan and Iraqi insurgents were/are military personnel? You just contradicted your leader who told you many times that Taliban and Insugents are NOT soldiers. The Geneva Convention doesn't apply with them ... remember? You write: When the radical groups, i.e., Hezbollah, Hamas, Al-Quada, etc., deliberately use children and women as shields, Just because the neo-cons keep repeating the lie doesn�t make it true. You write: ... not caring that they will be killed in attacks from outside, this is THEIR fault. That�s right - those uncaring Muslims who hate their children, unlike Americans who love their children so much that they can�t get enough of raping, molesting and killing them. I cringe every time I hear the typical American saying: �I love my children to death.� To death, indeed! You write: The US and her allies do not deliberately seek out innocents to kill. And when they do, it�s because the terrorists (forgive me for using the old-fashioned word, I should have said - the Muslim fascists) have put them there as shields (I just realized that we�re walking in circle here). You write: Can you deny the suicide bombers do NOT deliberately seek out innocent people? If they had carried out their evil plan of a few days ago, we would have had many thousand more INNOCENTS deliberately slaughtered.... ALLEGED, Patti, alleged suicide bombers. For a moment there you forgot that you are the citizen of a country which has such wonderful phrases as �innocent until proven guilty.� But why should that apply to MUSLIMS when it often doesn�t even apply to Americans? I suggest that you remove the hallow from around your head and the full-body chastity belt of self-righteousness from around your rump. They may be the causes for your sleepless nights.