IslamiCity.org Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Religion - Islam > Islam for non-Muslims
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - fate
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


fate

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
winjoy View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 26 June 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Status: Offline
Points: 20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote winjoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: fate
    Posted: 26 June 2006 at 11:22pm
I've read from a book in which states that our fate already planed and recorded by Allah, how much is it true  ?? or I've misunderstood ??
always searching
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
ak_m_f View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 October 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3272
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ak_m_f Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2006 at 11:43pm
Well.... you have raised a very good question.
can you please name the book for me?

I just need some background information before we can discuss this Issue.

Thank you.
Back to Top
winjoy View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 26 June 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Status: Offline
Points: 20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote winjoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2006 at 9:57am

hi, ak_m_f,

the name of the book is 'idealism the philosophy of the matrix and the true nature of matter' by Harun Yahya.

on page 165 ;


 

The fact is, everything, past or future, has already been created in the presence of God and preserved. The very important truth is that every human being has surrendered unconditionally to his destiny. Just as no one can change his past, he cannot change his future, because both his past and future have already been lived. All his future is fixed: where, when and what he will eat; what he will talk about and with whom; how much money he will earn, what illnesses he will endure; and finally, the circumstances of his death- all these events are fixed. He cannot change any of it, because this has all been lived in God's presence, with His knowledge. Except the knowledge thereof has not been granted to the memory of the person himself.

Therefore, those who are saddened by what they encounter, grow angry, shout and scream, worry about the future, or become overly ambitious, do so in vain. The future they worry about has already been lived. Whatever they may do, they have no means of changing it.

always searching
Back to Top
ak_m_f View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 October 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3272
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ak_m_f Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2006 at 12:56pm
hmmmm..very intersting.

The question of fate and free will is one of the most intriguing topics in religion.

Man feels absolutely powerless, regarding many of the circumstances in which he/she finds him/herself.

One might feel that there are so many givens, which one has to take for granted, and nothing can be done about them. On the other hand, there are many areas where one feels free to act. Look at the marvelous progress of humanity through the centuries. If humans were mere puppets, could we have managed all these wonderful achievements, which have made us so proud of human potential? !


Indeed the question of pre-destination and free will has haunted Man for so long; but it has been adequately dealt with in the Holy Qur’an.


From the Qur’anic point of view, Man is not completely a master of his fate; nor is he a puppet subject to the hazards of destiny.

It is true that God’s sovereignty is all pervading and nothing falls outside its purview. This means that God knows everything and it is according to His will, things happen here. The universe is completely subject to the overriding power of God, and nothing happens without God willing it to be so.

However, God not only created everything, but He determined its nature and scope. In His infinite wisdom and mercy, He gave Man limited power and great freedoms, including the freedom of choice.

It is because of this autonomy, enjoyed by Man, that he/she is held accountable for the individual deeds.
The Holy Qur’an says:

That man can have nothing but what he strives for;


Surah 53 Verse 39

... Verily never will God change the condition of a people until they change it themselves (with their own souls). ...


Surah 13 Verse 11

Say: "With God is the argument that reaches home: if it had been His will, He could indeed have guided you all."


Surah 6 Verse 149

Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it!
And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it.


Surah 99 Verses 7 - 8


In fact the concept of qadar (destiny), used in the Qur'an often, means a measure or the latent possibilities with which God created Man and all things of Nature. For example, God says:
... it is He who created all things, and ordered (qadara) them in due proportions.


Surah 25 Verse 2

In this verse, destiny implies the scope and potential of things. This means their latent capabilities.


There is a hadith, which says that God wrote down the decrees regarding the created world, fifty thousand years, before He created the heavens and the earth. The point to be noted here is that this does not, in any way, mean that God created a universe, finished off and complete, bound to the iron rules of Nature.

The idea behind qadar is that the creation of this universe was in accordance with the grand design of the Creator. This means that there is no element of chance in the creation of this universe. Everything is well arranged and well planned.

So this is not a kind of clockwork universe where God simply winds up the clock and then lets it run. The Holy Qur’an clearly says that God is constantly active in Creation:

God! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).


Surah 2 Verse 255

This verse indicates that God does not feel tired or sleepy in spite of the fact that He is constantly active.

Muhammad Iqbal, the renowned Islamic poet, has written: ‘Divine knowledge must be conceived as a living creative activity, to which the objects that appear to exist in their own right are organically related. By conceiving God's knowledge as a kind of reflecting mirror, we no doubt save His foreknowledge of future events. But, it is obvious that we do so at the expense of His freedom. The future certainly pre-exists in the organic whole of God's creative life, but it pre-exists as an open possibility, not as a fixed order of events with definite outlines.’


Time as an abstract concept- encompassing the past, present and future- is very much relative. It is, however, a great ‘present’ for the All-Seeing God. The whole continuum of time lies before Him in the shape of now. Knowledge is an act of creative activity and not the mere reflection of it. When He decrees a thing it happens and He sees it before it happens. God in Islam is therefore a free Creator with foreknowledge.


God's knowledge, however, is not like our knowledge. God's knowledge covers everything created, its past and its future.
... With God is the Decision, in the past and in the Future...


Surah 30 Verse 4

But God is the creator and we are the created. Our knowledge is limited in ways that God's knowledge is not. It is our very lack of knowledge which gives us free will. We cannot know our future and to a large extent we cannot control it. Our decisions are based on our understanding of the way the world works. Are these decisions free from God's command? Not really, but for all practical purposes we inevitably see them as free choices, we cannot do otherwise – that is our nature. We are held accountable only for things we understand. Our deeds are judged by their intentions.


So just as someone who punches his fist into a brick wall cannot claim injustice when it hurts, nor can we claim any injustice if we disobey God's moral laws, when we know them, and get punished. We "know" that the wall exists and that it is hard and that is the reality we deal with. The ultimate reality is however, that God could make that wall disappear just before your fist reached it.


The concept of qadar, therefore, indicates that we must seek harmony with God’s rules of human nature and nature at large, and consciously submit to His will. Destiny as conceived by Islam, therefore, does not take away our freedom of choice and action. It is our willful choice of those actions from our inherent possibilities that are in harmony with God’s will that earns us our reward from God. Thus, qadar can be a source of inspiration and encouragement for us, and it really opens up vast fields of human activity. It need not make us utterly powerless or helpless; on the contrary it can be a source of inspiration and encouragement.


Indeed, when God has set certain rules in his decree as to how things evolve, even these things can be changed through prayers. The prophet stressed that only sincere prayers can change the way events unfold, and that true worship and sincere submission to God can raise the believer above the normal ways of nature: Prayers can and do result in "personal miracles" - events or experiences which we consider almost impossible and certainly highly improbable.


From an Islamic point of view, Man is free for all practical purposes. He/she has no excuse for making the wrong choice and then blaming qadar or fate, any more than a man punching his fist into a wall can blame the laws of nature. He knew the consequences of his actions for all practical purposes and he shouldn't expect a miracle!


The foregoing means, that we should not worry about what God has written for us, since we can never know it; but our duty, here and now, is to strive for the best in this world and the next. I hope this helps.

If you have more question them please PM me.

Thank you.
Back to Top
winjoy View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 26 June 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Status: Offline
Points: 20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote winjoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2006 at 10:25pm

mk_m_f,

thank u very much for your reply. I very much appreciate your explanation.

so...for example, I'm a fat woman who want to be slim, there are ways to live my life ;

1./  exercise (strives for it) + prayers =  slim

2./  prayers only         &n bsp;         &n bsp;         = maybe, depends on God's will

3./  do nothing          ;           ;           ;  =  fat the whole life

that means the God created me to be a  fat woman, if I want to be slim, I've to strives for it. Otherwise, I just be happy to be a fat woman.

always searching
Back to Top
s666 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 07 June 2006
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 214
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote s666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2006 at 11:07am
dear bro ak_m_f,

your post was very informative.  thank you for it.

you said,
Originally posted by ak_m_f ak_m_f wrote:

The universe is completely subject to the overriding power of God, and nothing happens without God willing it to be so.


i have come across while searching the internet an article by harun yahya.
here is the link for it.
http://www.islamandkarma.com/fate.html

the article closes beautifully as "To sum up, the difference between someone who has submitted to Allah and the destiny decreed by Him, and someone who is unable to perceive the reality of the situation is that the former is aware that whatever we do is the result of Allah's will however much we may experience it as our own independent initiative; while on the other hand, the person who is not aware of this mistakenly believes that our actions originate in our own wisdom and our own abilities. In fact, "Allah's command is a pre-ordained decree". (Surat al-Ahzab: 38)."

what does that mean? how much free will do we have?
Back to Top
DigitalStorm82 View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 17 April 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 62
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DigitalStorm82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2006 at 9:48pm
Asalamu Alaikum Bro and Sis,

I just want to give my input in answering the question regarding fate and predesitned future.

The answer is VERY SIMPLE.

You are free to make your choices... what you choose to do is totally up to you and not anyone else.

The fact that your past and your future is written in a book already.. is because Allah (swt) is ALL KNOWING... He knows everything... time doesn't exist to him... He can see what you will do 10 years from now...etc.

so if you say... for example.. oh yeah Im fat... Im destined to be that way.. because God made me like that..   NO!  (No offense to anyone) =o)

God made you a perfect baby... what YOU.. yourself did caused you to be the way you are now.

All the calamities you suffer... you caused them with your own two hands...  Allah doesnt will anything bad for you...  He just knows what kind of choices you will make.. so your "FATE" is written in a book.

I hope that explains everything.

W'salaamz,
Hamid

Ma'Salama,
Hamid
Back to Top
s666 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 07 June 2006
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 214
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote s666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2006 at 12:50am
Originally posted by DigitalStorm82 DigitalStorm82 wrote:

Asalamu Alaikum Bro and Sis,

I just want to give my input in answering the question regarding fate and predesitned future.

The answer is VERY SIMPLE.

You are free to make your choices... what you choose to do is totally up to you and not anyone else.

The fact that your past and your future is written in a book already.. is because Allah (swt) is ALL KNOWING... He knows everything... time doesn't exist to him... He can see what you will do 10 years from now...etc.

so if you say... for example.. oh yeah Im fat... Im destined to be that way.. because God made me like that..   NO!  (No offense to anyone) =o)

God made you a perfect baby... what YOU.. yourself did caused you to be the way you are now.

All the calamities you suffer... you caused them with your own two hands...  Allah doesnt will anything bad for you...  He just knows what kind of choices you will make.. so your "FATE" is written in a book.

I hope that explains everything.

W'salaamz,
Hamid



this is a fair explanation similar to all the other religions.

but does this mean harun yahya is wrong in his interpretation?
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.