Jesus Christ did not die for our sins. |
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zulqarnain
Groupie Joined: 24 April 2006 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 94 |
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Look everybody. I agree taht "Common sense" is man's tool of evaluating logically, and that Allah's Plans cannot be understood by human minds. The more we study of God's Plan, the more puzzles there are to solve. The educated Christians should eveluate their religion as far as their logic can reach. A word from Allah ceases to be His Word, if it is not compatible with modern times, for He knows the future. This verse from the Bible is a fabrication of an author.
Look now, you people have to admit, e.g. if you had to choose a religion and you are pretty well educated, you would choose the religion which is most logical and is compatible with modern times. I won't argu further, because it would deviate from the topic Every soul is responsible for it's own action, nobody can be held responsible for the other, even a follower of a teacher should analyze his teachings before he follows it. |
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And We have not sent you(O Muhammad!) but as a mercy to the worlds. (Al-Quran 21: 107)
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Patty
Senior Member Joined: 14 September 2001 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2382 |
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BMZ said: "The philosophy of Sin being Wages of Death was introduced by the Church Juniors who became Church Elders later. It has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus. Read the Bible carefully and you will not find Jesus teaching or talking anything about the Sin, the First Sin and the Original Sin and that he had to die for our sins or anybody's sin." Jesus said to them in John 8:32 �And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Verse 36 �Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. Jesus continued to give His disciples more information on His purpose for coming to earth. Mark 8:31: �And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again� John 12:23-25: �But Jesus answered them, saying, "The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified." Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain. "He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. There are many other Gospel verses spoken by Jesus, but these I believe point out the fact that Jesus did speak of the importance of His death for the redemption of our sins. God's Peace. Edited by Patty |
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Patty
I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future. |
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DavidC
Senior Member Male Christian Joined: 20 September 2001 Location: Florida USA Status: Offline Points: 2474 |
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I said believe, not just say you believe. Hypocrites need not apply. |
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Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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BMZ
Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
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Zulqarnain, Jesus came into this world with the following prime message: "You shall worship only your One God and you shall worship that One God with all your hearts, your minds and your souls." (My quote showing the key message) The entire Law and the Universe revolve around this. Jesus did not come here to carry people's sins or anybody's sins. That is not what he taught himself openly and that was never his line of teaching. The philosophy of Sin being Wages of Death was introduced by the Church Juniors who became Church Elders later. It has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus. Read the Bible carefully and you will not find Jesus teaching or talking anything about the Sin, the First Sin and the Original Sin and that he had to die for our sins or anybody's sin. God Almighty's Mercy and Compassion has been known to the mankind, even before the arrival and exit of Jesus. That Mercy and Compassion extends to everything. You will find this clear verse in Qur'aan. No soul shall bear the burdens of anyone. The already-burdened ones would not want to bear any additional burdens of their own kids, family and relatives. They will say,"I am already burdened, don't you see I am so over-loaded! You go and carry your own!". Edited by bmzsp |
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Patty
Senior Member Joined: 14 September 2001 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2382 |
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This is what I believe qualifies as "common sense", and is a great part of my religion as a Catholic. It shows the immense mercy of God toward ALL mankind, and is one of many reasons why I am Catholic. "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126); But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.(20*) God's Peace. |
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Patty
I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future. |
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Angela
Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2555 |
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Not necessarily. If the topic is Jesus did not die for our sins, a fundamental part of that is who receives the Salvation and who doesn't. If you believe in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ and do good deeds, then salvation can be had. But just believing and not doing anything about it, isn't getting you anywhere. You can't claim Christ as your redeemer and live in sin and expect Heaven. Therefore, in my mind, you can't be a good person and do good works and go to hell just for not accepting Christ. The question is when Christ died. Was it to erase sins or to conquer death (given death being the result of the Original Sin)? Are my sins erased just by his death, or by my own repentance and works? What about those Muslims who pray to God 5 times a day and ask forgiveness for their sins? Would go not accept their repentance just because they claim Jesus as their beloved Prophet and not God's Son? |
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DavidC
Senior Member Male Christian Joined: 20 September 2001 Location: Florida USA Status: Offline Points: 2474 |
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But if you DO believe Jesus is the Son of God, you have a firm guarantee of salvation.
I'm not going to say anyone is condemned if they chose a different faith, but I do believe Christianity is the only faith that GUARANTEES salvation. And the discussion is wandering off topic... |
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Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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Angela
Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2555 |
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