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BMZ
Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
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Annie, Let me put this way. There are two Scriptures almost the same: 1. The Holy Scriptures of the Jews or call it The Jewish Bible 2. The Old Testament of the Christians or call it the OT of the Christian Bible. Which one do I choose as an outsider? Of course #1. Please note that the Jews do not recognise the OT in the Christian Bible. This is the problem. I cannot accept that the Christian scholars interpreted the Jewish Scriptures better than the Jews who had them centuries ago. There are lots of changes made in the words and meanings. I have already shown some and it is a common happening in the Christian OT. In the mean time, I will try to find comments from Jewish scholars and post.
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AnnieTwo
Senior Member Joined: 26 May 2006 Status: Offline Points: 281 |
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Anyway
that article has some truth in it. We cannot just discard it so easily. If it
were not Irenaeus, it could have been someone that we don't know, but someone
did make changes while writing the Christian OT from the Jewish OT. That
is still more factual. No
BMZ, as I said before the Septuagint was translated by Jews and not the Christians,
hundreds of years before Christ. The
scriptures were for the Jews, translated by the Jews, for Jews who did not
understand Hebrew. Nobody made changes,
BMZ. Why aren't you understanding this? It was simply a matter of reading the Hebrew
and translating the Hebrew into Greek.
From you, Annie: "I have
already told you that Irenaeus was not the first or only person to give reasons
why there are only 4 gospels and cited several historical sources." I don't think I asked for that.
What I know from the Scripture is that 4 gospels were chosen to represent
"the four corners" of the world. Is that right? No, you are incorrect. The four gospels chose themselves. They were the ones that were in constant use
before Irenaeus was born. This is what Irenaeus said.
The Gospels could not possibly be either more or
less in number than they are. Since there are four zones of the world in which
we live, and four principal winds, while the Church is spread over all the
earth, and the pillar and foundation of the Church is the gospel, and the Spirit
of life, it fittingly has four pillars, everywhere breathing out incorruption
and revivifying men. From this it is clear that the Word, the artificer of all
things, being manifested to men gave us the gospel, fourfold in form but held
together by one Spirit. As David said, when asking for his coming, 'O sitter
upon the cherubim, show yourself '. For the cherubim have four faces, and their
faces are images of the activity of the Son of God. For the first living
creature, it says, was like a lion, signifying his active and princely and
royal character; the second was like an ox, showing his sacrificial and
priestly order; the third had the face of a man, indicating very clearly his
coming in human guise; and the fourth was like a flying eagle, making plain the
giving of the Spirit who broods over the Church. Now the Gospels, in which
Christ is enthroned, are like these. (3.11.8) Edited by AnnieTwo |
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14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4
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BMZ
Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
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Annie, From you: "No BMZ, as I said before the Septuagint was translated by Jews and not the Christians, hundreds of years before Christ. The scriptures were for the Jews, translated by the Jews, for Jews who did not understand Hebrew. Nobody made changes, BMZ. Why aren't you understanding this? It was simply a matter of reading the Hebrew and translating the Hebrew into Greek." Annie, I will present my case in the language of a Primary One student: The Jewish Scripture: Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: behold, the young woman shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel" The Christian OT: Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with the child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel." Who is correct? The Jewish Scripture or the Christian OT? I believe the Jewish Scripture is correct here. The child was never named Immanuel. The mother was supposed to call the child Immanuel but SHE DID NOT! I know that Immanuel means "God with us" but you, others and I also know that if my name is Immanuel, I am not God with you and others. Please answer as if you are talking to a child! |
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AnnieTwo
Senior Member Joined: 26 May 2006 Status: Offline Points: 281 |
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Annie, Let
me put this way. There are two Scriptures almost the same: 1.
The Holy Scriptures of the Jews or call it The Jewish Bible Yes.
2.
The Old Testament of the Christians or call it the OT of the Christian Bible. Which
one do I choose as an outsider? Of course #1. I
use both.
Please
note that the Jews do not recognise the OT in the Christian Bible. Didn't
I already say that? When I have a
question about the meaning of some OT scriptures, I have a Jew that I go to to
get some answers. He will accept the OT
scripture and give an answer. If the OT
scripture is not as clear as the Hebrew, he will tell me the difference. He prefers the Stone edition of the Hebrew
and it is not on the Internet as far as I know.
This
is the problem. I cannot accept that the Christian scholars interpreted the
Jewish Scriptures better than the Jews who had them centuries ago. OK,
but you must consider that the Jews of today have a reason why they reject
Messiah Jesus. I think it is in the
interpretation and I don't altogether trust their interpretations and I have a
good reason. I can find lots of Jewish
scholars who consider many of the prophecies of Messiah that the Christians
do. Over time the Jews seem to have
changed their minds. I like to go back
to the Jewish though that is quite old.
I would suggest that you do the same.
There
are lots of changes made in the words and meanings. I have already shown some
and it is a common happening in the Christian OT. BMZ,
please try to understand that it was the Jews who interpreted the
Septuagint. They chose what they
considered the right word. This does
not equate into "changes made in the word and meanings." I'd like to make one additional point. The Jews who used the Septuagint did not all become Christians. Think about it. Annie |
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14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4
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AnnieTwo
Senior Member Joined: 26 May 2006 Status: Offline Points: 281 |
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BMZ,
Have I become your new best friend? I talk to you so much I don't have time to talk to anyone else. I'm not complaining, it is interesting. Annie |
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14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4
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AnnieTwo
Senior Member Joined: 26 May 2006 Status: Offline Points: 281 |
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BMZ, This subject has been covered on at least two topics. Annie PS: I will try to get something for you. It might be a link to the answer and you are just going to have to live with it. |
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14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4
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BMZ
Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
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Annie, From you: "Didn't I already say that? When I have a question about the meaning of some OT scriptures, I have a Jew that I go to to get some answers. He will accept the OT scripture and give an answer. If the OT scripture is not as clear as the Hebrew, he will tell me the difference. He prefers the Stone edition of the Hebrew and it is not on the Internet as far as I know." Annie, you have got one Jew and I have two Rabbis in the Singapore Synagogues plus a dozen Jewish scholars from the Mennaseh Trust here. I have The Jewish Scriptures in the Masoretic Text right next to my computer and I ask Rabbis on Moses and other Jewishdotcoms. None of them agrees with your goodself and your Jew, Annie! Best wishes and Good Night. |
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BMZ
Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
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"BMZ, Good exchanges are interesting and challenging, Annie. I wish George were here and it would have been doubly interesting. George has run away from this site! Hope this comment will make him come back. Thanks & Good Night BMZ |
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