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AnnieTwo View Drop Down
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Points: 281 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnnieTwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2006 at 11:04am
Originally posted by bmzsp bmzsp wrote:

Annie,

From you: "Joseph was Jesus' father through adoption and all that entails."

What is "and all that entails"?  There is nothing there that entails anything.


Legal rights.

Originally posted by BMZ BMZ wrote:


That still does not make Joseph the real father. Qur'aan describes his name beautifully "Jesus, the son of Mary" whichis more factual.

If you look at the genealogy given by Matthew and Luke, both of them are somehow establishing the genealogy of Joseph. Both make wrong connections, as I have pointed out earlier.


Matthew is the genealogy of Joseph; Luke is the genealogy of Mary.  Would you like some links to help you understand?

Luke 1:  29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. 31You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."

Looks like God took care of the genealogies.

Annie


Edited by AnnieTwo
14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4

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BMZ View Drop Down
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Points: 1852 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2006 at 8:10am

Annie,

From you: "Joseph was Jesus' father through adoption and all that entails."

What is "and all that entails"?  There is nothing there that entails anything.

That still does not make Joseph the real father. Qur'aan describes his name beautifully "Jesus, the son of Mary" whichis more factual.

If you look at the genealogy given by Matthew and Luke, both of them are somehow establishing the genealogy of Joseph. Both make wrong connections, as I have pointed out earlier.


 
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AnnieTwo View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Mishmish Mishmish wrote:

But the Bible still lists the geneology through Joseph.


Joseph was Jesus' father through adoption and all that entails.

Annie
14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4

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AnnieTwo View Drop Down
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Points: 281 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnnieTwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2006 at 4:41am
Originally posted by Mishmish Mishmish wrote:

"I would never put my salvation in the hands of today's Jews.'

The Jews might feel the same way...



They do, but my point is that the Jews have changed their minds about what is Messanic prophecy in the Old Testament.  If you look at the earlier opinions, for instance, most if not all, regarded Isaiah 53 as Messanic but now they say it refers to the nation of Israel.

I think you will see that the Rabbis and scholars today offer their "new" opinions based on a polemic against Christianity.

You have to wonder why there are 10's of thousands of Jews who read their Scriptures in Hebrew and come up with a different interpretation than the Orthodox Jews do and accept Jesus as the Messiah.

Even the Qur'an says that Jesus was the Messiah, not a Messiah, but the Messiah.  There were lots of Messiahs, anointed ones, but there was and is only one Messiah who is the Messiah and that is Messiah Jesus.

I have read the opinions of the Jews in this regard.

There is probably no subject that is more important to the Jews and the Muslims.  Muslims must read the Old Testament and more importantly study it, using all the tools available.

Annie
14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4

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BMZ View Drop Down
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Points: 1852 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2006 at 2:28am

That is correct, Mishmish.

By the way, I checked with my Rabbi about the belief of Jews about afterlife. They do believe in afterlife. According to him and some of my other Jews, their dead will be resurrected when their Messiah comes.

Teacher, teacher, please note this.  (This is not for you, Mishmish)
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Mishmish View Drop Down
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Points: 1694 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mishmish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2006 at 10:55pm
Well, apparently to the Jews awaiting the Messiah it was somewhat important.
It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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BMZ View Drop Down
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Points: 1852 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2006 at 8:49pm

"But the Bible still lists the geneology through Joseph."

Yes, Mishmish. The Bible establishes the genealogy of Joseph first then makes Joseph the husband of Mary who is the mother of Jesus. It should not have been titled The Genealogy of Jesus.

Both Matthew and Luke have made mistakes in the genealogy.

Luke says Joseph was the son of Heli, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melki.....and goes on writing his own list.

Matthew says Joseph was the son of Jacob, the son of Matthan, the son of Eleazar.............and goes on writing his own list.

Angela is correct in saying that the genealogy covers that of his mother. Anyway, the Genealogy is not important at all. If it were, the Church Fathers would have fixed the blunders in Matthew and Luke.



 



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Mishmish View Drop Down
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Points: 1694 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mishmish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2006 at 8:08pm
But the Bible still lists the geneology through Joseph.
It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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