Satan’s Great Manipulation of Christians

Acquinian: "It's my belief that Allah and the God of Abraham are two different entities, as defined by their respective followings."

When you say anything of this sort here, you must quote reference from reliable sources in your support.

Allah is the Master of the entire universe, and He sent His Messengers such as Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad ( peace be upon them ) to guide the mankind from time to time.

Peace

Edited by peacemaker

Aquinian, you should be aware that Roman Catholic doctrine clearly states that both Catholics and Muslims worship the same God.
# # #

Lumen gentium 16

Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126); But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.

Nostra aetate 3

The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.

Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom.

# # #

With this in mind, do you still care to continue with your conceit?


Edited by DavidC

Dear David,

You are correct.  I'm not sure if Aquinian is Roman Catholic or not, but I know that I AM!  Of course we all worship the same God.  The God of Abraham.  The priests often have a homily (sermon) regarding this subject during Mass.

However, as a Roman Catholic I can also refute Andalus' words regarding the "worship" of statues and pictures.  Andalus, my friend, you have, or are being, misled on this idea.  I have a beautiful statue of Mary of Fatima in my home, and a framed picture of the Blessed Virgin at the Chapel of Loreto in my home.  We have a magnificant painting of the Holy Family (Mary, Joseph, and baby Jesus) which came from St. Patrick's Cathedral in NYC, in our living room.  However, we NEVER WOULD THINK OF WORSHIPPING THEM!!!!!  It is a mortal (or greivous sin) in my religion....which means if you were to die without repenting a sin such as this you are doomed.

I respectfully disagree with your statements that Catholics have learned to "skirt" around what we are really doing.  Why would we do that?  We have no need to do such a thing.  We always say exactly what we believe and why we believe it.  If the Church encouraged worshipping of statues and/or pictures, I would not be lying and saying "nope, we don't do that....we do this".  But I am telling you the truth because I cannot stand the myths and misconceptions to go about undefended.  So to make myself perfectly clear, my friend, we do not worship any "things".  We enjoy their beauty and we are reminded of their great faith and love for us by seeing their pictures and statues.  (Just as I do when I see the pictures before me of my beloved Grandchildren, but I DON'T worship my Grandchildren as any sort of gods, even though I love them dearly.)  We worship God.....the God of Abraham, which in my religion includes God the Father, Jesus the Son, and The Holy Spirit.  Three entities, ONE GOD.

As you know, I don't expect you or anyone of another faith to believe as I do......but I also cannot in good conscience allow misconceptions, myths, and untruths go undefended about my chosen religion either. 

God's Blessings Upon You!

Here is what the Catholic Church believes regarding statues and paintings:

Do Catholics Worship Statues?

"Catholics worship statues!" People still make this ridiculous claim. Because Catholics have statues in their churches, goes the accusation, they are violating God�s commandment: "You shall not make for yourself a graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow down to them or serve them" (Ex. 20:4�5); "Alas, this people have sinned a great sin; they have made for themselves gods of gold" (Ex. 32:31).

It is right to warn people against the sin of idolatry when they are committing it. But calling Catholics idolaters because they have images of Christ and the saints is based on misunderstanding or ignorance of what the Bible says about the purpose and uses (both good and bad) of statues.

Anti-Catholic writer Loraine Boettner, in his book Roman Catholicism, makes the blanket statement, "God has forbidden the use of images in worship" (281). Yet if people were to "search the scriptures" (cf. John 5:39), they would find the opposite is true. God forbade the worship of statues, but he did not forbid the religious use of statues. Instead, he actually commanded their use in religious contexts! 

God Said To Make Them

People who oppose religious statuary forget about the many passages where the Lord commands the making of statues. For example: "And you shall make two cherubim of gold [i.e., two gold statues of angels]; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be" (Ex. 25:18�20).

David gave Solomon the plan "for the altar of incense made of refined gold, and its weight; also his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all, all the work to be done according to the plan" (1 Chr. 28:18�19). David�s plan for the temple, which the biblical author tells us was "by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all," included statues of angels.

Similarly Ezekiel 41:17�18 describes graven (carved) images in the idealized temple he was shown in a vision, for he writes, "On the walls round about in the inner room and [on] the nave were carved likenesses of cherubim." 

The Religious Uses of Images

During a plague of serpents sent to punish the Israelites during the exodus, God told Moses to "make [a statue of] a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live" (Num. 21:8�9).

One had to look at the bronze statue of the serpent to be healed, which shows that statues could be used ritually, not merely as religious decorations.

Catholics use statues, paintings, and other artistic devices to recall the person or thing depicted. Just as it helps to remember one�s mother by looking at her photograph, so it helps to recall the example of the saints by looking at pictures of them. Catholics also use statues as teaching tools. In the early Church they were especially useful for the instruction of the illiterate. Many Protestants have pictures of Jesus and other Bible pictures in Sunday school for teaching children. Catholics also use statues to commemorate certain people and events, much as Protestant churches have three-dimensional nativity scenes at Christmas.

If one measured Protestants by the same rule, then by using these "graven" images, they would be practicing the "idolatry" of which they accuse Catholics. But there�s no idolatry going on in these situations. God forbids the worship of images as gods, but he doesn�t ban the making of images. If he had, religious movies, videos, photographs, paintings, and all similar things would be banned. But, as the case of the bronze serpent shows, God does not even forbid the ritual use of religious images.

It is when people begin to adore a statue as a god that the Lord becomes angry. Thus when people did start to worship the bronze serpent as a snake-god (whom they named "Nehushtan"), the righteous king Hezekiah had it destroyed (2 Kgs. 18:4)."

Peace and Wisdom!