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Satan’s Great Manipulation of Christians |
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Patty 
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Joined: 14 September 2001 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2382 |
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 Posted: 17 June 2006 at 7:06pm |
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Beautiful, Israfil. Peace be with you..... |
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Patty
I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future. |
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Israfil
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Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
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Posted: 17 June 2006 at 3:15pm |
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Salaam, I honestly feel that most Christians, Caholics or those who are adherents to the Christian faith truly worship God. I understand that there are those who worship blindly, and ignorantly but for the most part it all leads to God. Without mentioning Islam if I said I worshiped the Lord of the Universe to a priest in his mind it is obviously God. Now only when we discuss the specifics in the nature of God such as his manifestation and so forth then we may come to differences. However Christianity is not manipulated by Satan but by man. Any deviation among the people is because of human error not because of Satan. If Satan caused so many errors in mankind how do we discern the particular actions of man from Satan? We cannot. As Allah says in the Qur'an that all good comes from his and evil come from mankind. In regards to the whole statue isue although I do believe that SOME Catholics venerate the saints image in their cathedrals I firmly believe that they are expressing their devotion to God through seeking an intermediary. I see this as the symbolic gesture odf not feeling worthy enough to directly communicate with God and therefore on the behalf of the human they seek the saints. As it was explained to me since the Saints are with God in the Empyrean they can be sought out as intermediaries on the behalf of those who invoke them in prayer. However invoking those [Saints] in prayer according to some Catholics is not the same thing as invoking God. In some Catholic sermons some priest will mention the name of a a saint and say "[Saint's Name] pray for" or For example [Saint John the Baptist] pray for us etc. One thing I admire about Cathedrals is that the images are indeed beautific although perhaps inaccurate historically I do feel a spiritual presence there. I once prayed in a Cathedral and luckily for me the east direction I was praying in did not have any of the icons in front of me I still felt the presence of God there nonetheless. |
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Patty
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Joined: 14 September 2001 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2382 |
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Posted: 17 June 2006 at 11:39am |
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Aquinian, very good post! Here is another very important message which Jesus Himself spoke in John 6:48-68: "I am the bread of life. Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died; this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world." The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?" Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day." Dear Suzanne, I can't believe you were ever a Baptised Catholic. There are FAR too many inaccuracies in your statements as to what Catholic, do, believe, and how we feel. They are quite simply, INCORRECT. We genuflect (remember that word) out of respect for Jesus whom we know is in the Tabernacle (remember). We bless ourselves in respect and honor of the Holy Trinity. We pray whatever we feel like praying when we enter the pew and kneel. Some people look up at the Crucifix, others have their head bowed downward. It's up to the person. We DO NOT WORSHIP THE CRUCIFIX!!!!!!!!! We look at it to remind us of the great suffering Jesus endured for the unworthy and wretch sinners such as me. We rarely sing in Latin, although I wish we did more, because it is beautiful! We sing in Latin at times because so many of the long dead saints wrote the songs in Latin back in the early centuries. There is much, much more I want to say to you, my Dear Suzanne....but I have to run some errands. I will be back. It seems to me that from the way your write, someone has really done a number on you...gotten into your head. I hate that!!! I just cannot see you as Catholic. If you really were at one time, I apologize....but you do NOT write like any former Catholic, and you are horribly inaccurate in far too many regards. Peace to you always! |
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Patty
I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future. |
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Srya
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Joined: 27 February 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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Posted: 17 June 2006 at 12:18am |
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Oh, I wanted to mention something else or again just talk about it more. The three things I listed in my first post when I was taking about the three ways that Satan helps to devert from the truth was what Salman had listed: He manipulated them with regards to Allah, the Exalted and Most High. Satan is not what is always shown as a cartoon or in moves....example:Red with horns and a long tail with a cape and pitch fork. Satan comes to us with our eyes,ears, thoughts, actions. How is that on the lines of someone who is Islamiphobic Christian? I am guessing you read and was along the lines of ...I am going to wing it just stay with me,,,, or try to anyways here goes ..."Satan, how obsurd I worship the 1 and only GOD how is Satan this and that" When someone is praying to GOD the almighty and is thinking what they believe Jesus pbuh looks like....is in essance a form of worshiping and idol. It is okay to those who do this because it is all in a way of good and truth...praying etc...Right? No ,it is not in a good way. Satan makes those ones feel that it is okay because Jesus pbuh was a Prophet of GOD and thinking of him is okay. Even though they don't know what he looks like. It is still okay to them. Not a form of worshiping an image? The thoughts are from Satan, that is what I meant. Good night all |
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DavidC
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Male Christian Joined: 20 September 2001 Location: Florida USA Status: Offline Points: 2474 |
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Posted: 17 June 2006 at 12:14am |
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Hi Suzanne,
I hope you appreciated the sarcasm in my post. If you understand that Christians do not worship objects that is my only concern. Feel free to speculate on the metaphysical manipulations of Christians, satanic or otherwise. I will try to clarify any notions that may leave an inaccurate picture of Christian belief, but it is against my principles to undermine anyone's faith in God, so I shall not counter in kind. |
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Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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Srya
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Joined: 27 February 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 11:14pm |
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David,
When we do prostrate yeah Satan is working to get us. How? One example Making us think of other things in our daily lives while we are reciting prayers and not paying attention to what we are saying just spouting out. Sort of like when you do something so many times you can do it without thinking twice, no meaning. I want to stay on the idol example here for now I just wanted to answer you briefly.But, as far as when we prostrate our self at jummah (since you gave this example I will stick to it) we do not have a statue or picture in front of us as we are doing it. Why? All idols.
That is the point.
Yes, you are right when we do Prostrate 5x a day (More for some if they want) we are directing toward the Ka'aba ; and No we do not pray to IT 5 times a day. The direction. Direction toward the east. Where all 3 Religions started.
Yes, you are right every religion has rituals and reminders as you said. A part of every successful religion.
The difference is YOU, ME, We do not know what JESUS pbuh looks like.Yet, most Christians when they pray have a picture (there are many choose one) in their minds from an image, statue, a card are a few examples ......while they are praying. Or facing a statue as a "Reminder" hanging in Church that is supposed to represent Jesus pbuh.
Please explain to me how this is not a form of worshiping idols? Because is it not an Image?
Salem Bmzsp,
You asked:Who was it at that time when you were a Catholic Christian? God Almighty or Jesus?
When I would pray I would have an outline of Jesus pbuh in my head and then pray to GOD. Because, I was taught back then that you pray to GOD thru Jesus pbuh. Because it was taught that Jesus was GOD in the living form.
I hope inshallah the ones who are on this website trying to prove wrong will see the truth. Amen
The difference for me is not to say ah ha got ya! Or, along those lines of you are wrong, etc etc. I am truly wanting people to see what it is that drives them to worship what GOD almighty has created instead of GOD almighty himself which there are no images of be it statue or picture.
Thanks for your time.
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DavidC
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Male Christian Joined: 20 September 2001 Location: Florida USA Status: Offline Points: 2474 |
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 10:00pm |
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C'mon. When you prostrate yourself at jummah is Satan working to get you to idolize the prayer leader?
What about that black stone in the Ka'aba? Do you pray to it 5X a day? Really, Suzanne. This is just silly. Even the most Islamophobic Christians would not make that kind of reach. Rituals and reminders are part of every successful religion. |
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Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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BMZ
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Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 9:54pm |
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Excellent, Suzanne. I know that Catholics do not worship that statue of Jesus. But the questions you raised are absolutely correct. In a place, where God is being worshipped, there should not be any image or any graven image or a sculpture. Hanging up Jesus on Cross before the eyes of all worshippers, may indicate worship of Jesus. I have always wondered who really is in the mind of Christians when they worship in the Church, Jesus or God Almighty? When we pray and offer Salaat, only God Almighty is in our mind which shows what Jesus really wanted people to do, that is, constant devotion to God Almighty only and to worship and love God Almighty with all heart, all mind and all soul. No one can serve two masters with the same amount of love and affection. Could you please tell me from your own past experience, Suzzane? Who was it at that time when you were a Catholic Christian? God Almighty or Jesus? An answer would be highly appreciated. Thanks for the insight & Best Regards Salaam Alaikum BMZ |
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I am going to ask this question in the 17th Storey study class. 