The Trinity is a Pagan Doctrine. |
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BMZ
Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
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AbRah, Good quote and it is a solid one from paul. "In 1st Timothy, 2:5, Paul writes: �For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.� |
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AbRah2006
Guest Group Joined: 13 May 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 354 |
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There is no contradiction between me and Paul. My response: Why can't you read and admit that it is a contradiction? Your statement and Paul's clearly contradict each other! So this is how Christians condone the contradictions of the Bible! |
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God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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AnnieTwo
Senior Member Joined: 26 May 2006 Status: Offline Points: 281 |
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AbRah2006,
There is no contradiction between me and Paul. My response: Why can't you read and admit that it is a contradiction? Your statement and Paul's clearly contradict each other! So this is how Christians condone the contradictions of the Bible! All Christians believe that Jesus was a man but that is not all that he was. 1 Timothy 2: 1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, Paul is saying that there is one God and there is only one God. Paul is saying that there is one mediator between God and men and that is Messiah Jesus. Paul is saying that Messiah Jesus gave Himself as a ransom for all. Do you believe what Paul said? Jesus said he was Messiah Jesus and that he would die as a ransom for many and Paul is confirming that. There is no contradiction. Annie |
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AbRah2006
Guest Group Joined: 13 May 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 354 |
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I quote AnnieTwo's statement: There is no contradiction between me and Paul. My response: Let me quote your statement: AnnieTwo's statement: "Trinity" to me means that God interacts with us through the Father and through the incarnate Word and through his Spirit. In 1st Timothy, 2:5, Paul writes: �For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.�
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God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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AnnieTwo
Senior Member Joined: 26 May 2006 Status: Offline Points: 281 |
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Are the
New Testament themes found
The concepts in the New
Testament were not derived out of thin air. Amos 3:7 says, "Surely the Lord God does
nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets."
What is mentioned in the New Testament is revealed in the Old Testament
either clearly or in types and figures. Gen.
22 is a great example of the sacrifice of Jesus, the Son in Typology
represented by the sacrifice of Isaac.
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BMZ
Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
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Annie, You wrote:" Gen. 22 is a great example of the sacrifice of Jesus, the Son in Typology represented by the sacrifice of Isaac. If Gen.22 is really a great example of the sacrifice of Jesus, then Jesus should have been sacrifised as a burnt offering by God, who loved, admired and accepted burnt scarifices. Since Jesus was not laid on a pyre, it cannot be applied to Jesus at all, not even an iota of that thought is valid. This is something very important: Gen.22:12 "Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him." The same God allows Mary's son to be "killed" in a different way, not by the way of a burnt offering. The example is pointless and incorrect! This is how the "fulfilling scripture" has to go and dig out of the so-called "Unfulfilled Scripture". If God could have stopped Issac from getting slaughtered and burnt, surely God could have rescued Jesus from two pieces of timber!!
Edited by bmzsp |
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BMZ
Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
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Annie: You wrote: "Paul is saying that there is one God and there is only one God. Paul is saying that there is one mediator between God and men and that is Messiah Jesus. Paul is saying that Messiah Jesus gave Himself as a ransom for all." Let me re-write it for the sake of discussion: "Paul is saying that there is one God and there is only one God. Paul is saying that there is one mediator between God and men and that is Messiah Jesus. Paul is saying that Messiah Jesus gave himself as a ransom for all." Couldn't the Messiah Jesus save all by living, instead of "dying" unnecessarily, like the Living God saved Isaac? Paul also specifically used the term "Man" for Jesus. Did Paul not?
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AbRah2006
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AnnieTwo's statement: Nevertheless, following is a chart that exemplifies many of the themes that were revealed in the Old Testament and fulfilled in the New. It is easy to see that there is no need at all for the Christians to borrow from any source outside the Old Testament. My response: Where does the Trinity come from? From the line of Shem, Noah's other son, Abraham was called out of "Ur of the Chaldees" (Genesis 11:31; 12:1,2), the ancient Babylonian empire. His descendants were given the revelation of God by Moses from Mount Sinai. "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD" (Deuteronomy 6:4). No Hebrew scripture supports the idea of a trinity god. Some verses have been pressed into use by Trinitarians, but without success. For example, in the creation account, Genesis says, "God [elohim, plural.] created the heavens and the earth" (1:1). However, the plural does not have to do with number; it is "plentitude of might" (Pentateuch & Haftorahs, The Soncino Press). In any case, the verb "created" is singular, and would not indicate two gods, let alone three. Even the New Catholic Encyclopedia admits that the doctrine of the Trinity is not taught in the Old Testament (Vol. XIV, 306). And the world renown "International Standard Bible Encyclopedia" says, under the article on the Trinity in it, "The term 'Trinity' is NOT a biblical term....In point of fact, the doctrine of the Trinity is a purely revealed doctrine...As the doctrine of the Trinity is indiscoverable by reason, so it is incapable of proof from reason." (International Encyclopedia of the Bible," Vol. 5, (page 3012)). I repeat my question: Where does the Trinity come from since no Hebrew scripture supports the idea of a trinity god. ? Edited by AbRah2006 |
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God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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