IslamiCity.org Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Religion - Islam > Interfaith Dialogue
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - The Crucifixion of Jesus  What is Islam What is Islam  Donate Donate
  FAQ FAQ  Quran Search Quran Search  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedThe Crucifixion of Jesus

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 910111213>
Author
Message
George View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 14 April 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 406
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2006 at 11:17am
Originally posted by AbRah2006 AbRah2006 wrote:

Originally posted by George George wrote:

AbRah,

I want to thank you for this topic.  Even though I do not like your tone or your choice of words, you have given the Christians an opportunity to correct your allegations, mistranslations and misunderstandings.  You have also given the Muslims the opportunity to see our explanations and see how mistaken you are.  Thanks.

God, indeed, does work in mysterious ways.

Peace

 

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------

Yeah God, indeed, does work in mysterious ways. And I have exposed the contradictory statements of the OT and NT and you George are twisting your own words to condone the contradictions of the Bible...You inteprete the contradictory statements according to your own liking to condone the corruption and contradiction of the Bible! You even against the teachings of the Bible by making your own interpretation of the contradictory statements of the OT and NT so that you can win the debate .....It seems to me that you are a desperate preacher who will lie and cheat and twist so that you will win the debate! Yeah God, indeed, does work in mysterious ways. I have met so many Christian preachers like you and I am not surprised to see how you behave!

Rah,

You should be ashamed of yourself.  You made allegations and you got the answers.  Nobody can help it if you don't understand what you are reading.  I would bet money that you haven't read the Bible; in fact, I would bet money that you are copying and pasting from Osama Abdullah's website.  If so, then no wonder you are so confused.  He is absolutely the worst person you should be reading.

Originally posted by Rah Rah wrote:

It seems to me that you are a desperate preacher who will lie and cheat and twist so that you will win the debate!

You have attacked me personally.  I do not lie nor do I cheat nor do I twist. Please do not do that.  I am happy to see that you admit that I and the rest of the Christians are winning the debate.  It takes a big man to admit that.

Originally posted by Rah Rah wrote:

Yeah God, indeed, does work in mysterious ways. I have met so many Christian preachers like you and I am not surprised to see how you behave!

God loves me.  I am in God's hands and he will never let me go.  I am a child of God and I am his own and he loves me so much that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

I think God would be proud of my behavior as it is He would helps me answer your allegations against his Holy Bible.

Peace

Back to Top
fredifreeloader View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar
Joined: 17 February 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 456
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2006 at 11:28am

 Can you plant a cross so that it will grow up like a tree? Can the cross produce flowers and bear fruits etc? Does the cross has leaves, branches, shoots? Can the cross perform the phtosynthesis? Can the cross perform respiration and oxidation? Can a cross absorb carbon dioxide (a greenhouse gas), and in turn, replenish the atmosphere with oxygen for us to breathe. 

  can you read?  then i suggest you read what i wrote



Edited by fredifreeloader
for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16
Back to Top
AbRah2006 View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 354
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2006 at 11:37am

George's statement:

Originally posted by AbRah2006 AbRah2006 wrote:

(2)Christ was to be three days and three nights in the   grave Matt 12:40
Christ was but two days and two nights in the grave
          Mark 15:25,42,44,45,46; 16:9 

Answer:  Matt 12:40, For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Mark 15: 25 Now it was the third hour, and they crucified Him.

Mark 15: 42 Now when evening had come, because it was the Preparation Day, that is, the day before the Sabbath, 43 Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent council member, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, coming and taking courage, went in to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. 44 Pilate marveled that He was already dead; and summoning the centurion, he asked him if He had been dead for some time. 45 So when he found out from the centurion, he granted the body to Joseph. 46 Then he bought fine linen, took Him down, and wrapped Him in the linen. And he laid Him in a tomb which had been hewn out of the rock, and rolled a stone against the door of the tomb.

Mark 16: 9 Now when He rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons.

You are going to have to explain your problem here because I don't understand what you are trying to say.

 

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------

My answer: I am trying to say that the crucifixion of Jesus is a lie because the writers of the Gospel of Mark and Matthew contradict one another:

(1) Christ was to be three days and three nights in the   grave Matt 12:40
(2) Christ was but two days and two nights in the grave
          Mark 15:25,42,44,45,46; 16:9 

If the writers and the so-called witnesses of the crucifixion really witnessed the so-called the crucifixion of Jesus, why did they make the contradictory statements? It seems to me that the crucifixion of Jesus did not happen due to the contradiction! If they really witnessed the crucifixion they should write the same thing!



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
Back to Top
Patty View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar
Joined: 14 September 2001
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2382
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2006 at 11:48am

Here are some articles from more ancient sources.  (I have a great interest in them, because they were written so close to the time of Jesus.)  This is what a few of them say regarding the Crucifixion:

Josephus, Jewish historian (AD 37-100) wrote of Jesus:

"About this time appeared Jesus, a wise man (if indeed it is right to call Him man; for He was a worker of astonishing deeds, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with joy), and He drew to Himself many Jews (many also of Greeks. This was the Christ.) And when Pilate, at the denunciation of those that are foremost among us, had condemned Him to the cross, those who had first loved Him did not abandon Him (for He appeared to them alive again on the third day, the holy prophets having foretold this and countless other marvels about Him.) The tribe of Christians named after Him did not cease to this day." (Jewish Antiquities, 18.3.3 �63 )

The Jewish Talmud (Centuries of Jewish oral tradition committed to
writing between AD 200 and AD 500), In the Babylonian Talmud in tractate Sanhedrin (43A), there is an interesting reference to Jesus.

On the eve of Passover they **hanged Yeshu (of Nazareth) and the herald went
before him for forty days saying (Yeshu of Nazareth) is going to be stoned
in that he hath practiced sorcery and beguiled and led astray Israel. Let
everyone knowing aught in his defense come and plead for him. But they found
naught in his defense and hanged him on the eve of Passover.

** Before anyone says anything about "hanged", I have already researched it, and by "hanged" they meant literally "hanged on the cross" -- Patty

Thallus, a Samaritan-born historian, wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean world from the Trojan War to his own time 52 AD.  His writings are only found as citations by others. Thallus was quoted by Julius Africanus who wrote about AD 221 mentioned Thallus' account of an eclipse of the sun:

On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun.

The oddity is that Jesus' crucifixion occurred at the Passover which was a full moon.  It is not possible for a solar eclipse to occur at a full moon. So, the event had to be a supernatural event.

Lucian of Samosta, Greek satirist, second century AD, alludes to Christ:

The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day--the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. . . . You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the comtempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property.

Lucian also reported that the Christians had 'sacred writings' which were frequently read. When something affected them, "they spare no trouble, no expense."

Tacitus, a Roman historian, in his Annals, c. AD 115, describes the Roman Emperor Nero's actions after the great fire of Rome, c. AD 64:

Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Jud�a, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.

� Mischievous Superstition�.
Exitiabilis is the latin word for mischievous. It means destructive, fatal, deadly. So it would seem that what tacitus actually said was it was �a destructive or fatal or deadly superstition�. He was calling Christianity evil. So, it is obvious that he was not a Christian, thus he would not be sharing about the death of Jesus to support the fact that there was a historical Jesus that was killed by Pontius Pilate. Note that Tacitus is not referring to the death of the Jesus as supersititon but the practice of Jesus� followers.

The conclusion here is, imo, that historians and others that were not Christians, acknowledge the death and/or crucifixion of Jesus. Most Jews even to this day don't doubt that Jesus died on a cross. They just don't recognize Him as the Messiah and that He rose from the dead.

God's Peace,

Patty


 



Edited by Patty
Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
Back to Top
Patty View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar
Joined: 14 September 2001
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2382
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2006 at 12:02pm
 

Was Jesus hung on a tree?

The New Testament uses the word tree five times to refer to Christ's crucifixion on a cross. The references are found in Acts 5:30, 10:39, 13:29, Galatians 3:13 and 1 Peter 2:24. Most of the time, the noun stauros (stake) and the verb stauroo (crucify) are used in connection with Jesus Christ's death. These two words appear 74 times in the New Testament.

One of the five appearances of tree occurs in the book of Galatians. "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us," wrote Paul, "for it is written: `Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree"' (Galatians 3:13). In this case, Paul was quoting a phrase found in Deuteronomy 21:23.

Paul was referring to the Torah's prescribed form of execution by stoning for certain offenses, such as blasphemy and idolatry. After being stoned to death, the person's body was hung on a tree to show the individual was under God's curse. To the Jews, hanging on a tree had become a metaphor for an apostate, a blasphemer or a person deemed under God's curse. That's exactly how the Jews viewed Jesus (John 5:18; 10:33; Matthew 26:63-65).

Their attitude would explain why Peter and Paul, on occasion, used the Greek word for "tree" (xylon) to describe Jesus' execution, even though he was crucified on a cross. Three times in the book of Acts the word tree is used to refer to Jesus' crucifixion. In these cases, it appears in a Jewish context as well.

Also, from biology online:

Definition of xylon -- A genus of prickly shrubs or small trees

It was quite common for the cross, during the time of Jesus, to be referred to as the "tree".

God's peace,

Patty

Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
Back to Top
Patty View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar
Joined: 14 September 2001
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2382
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2006 at 12:04pm

George said:

"I think God would be proud of my behavior as it is He would helps me answer your allegations against his Holy Bible."

I second that, George.  You are a gentleman and a wonderful example of a true Christian.

Peace be with you, George.

Patty



Edited by Patty
Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
Back to Top
AbRah2006 View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 354
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2006 at 12:12pm

George's statements:

Rah,

You should be ashamed of yourself.  You made allegations and you got the answers.  Nobody can help it if you don't understand what you are reading.  I would bet money that you haven't read the Bible; in fact, I would bet money that you are copying and pasting from Osama Abdullah's website.  If so, then no wonder you are so confused.  He is absolutely the worst person you should be reading.

Originally posted by Rah Rah wrote:

It seems to me that you are a desperate preacher who will lie and cheat and twist so that you will win the debate!

You have attacked me personally.  I do not lie nor do I cheat nor do I twist. Please do not do that.  I am happy to see that you admit that I and the rest of the Christians are winning the debate.  It takes a big man to admit that.

Originally posted by Rah Rah wrote:

Yeah God, indeed, does work in mysterious ways. I have met so many Christian preachers like you and I am not surprised to see how you behave!

God loves me.  I am in God's hands and he will never let me go.  I am a child of God and I am his own and he loves me so much that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

I think God would be proud of my behavior as it is He would helps me answer your allegations against his Holy Bible.

 

___________________________________________________________

My answer to refute George's lies:

(1)I am NOT ashamed of myself for exposing the contradictions of the Bible.....In fact I will to expose more errors and contradictions of the Bible to see how you cheat, lie and twist to condone the corruption of the OT and NT

(2) You are so wicked for slandering Osama Abdullah who have exposed the corruption of the Bible and how you Christians corrupt your own Bible into a lie! Ossama Abdullah have so many proofs to prove that you George are a liar! Please visit www.answering-christianity and see yourselves how the preachers like George corrupt the Bible into a lie.

(3) You have slandered me by accusing me of copying Ossama's points so you are the liar! I do my own research and I have the OT and NT as my reference!

(4) You are not sure of what you are saying to me when you use the word 'IF'....There is no IF, if you are sure of your statement...Let me quote your own words: "I would bet money that you haven't read the Bible; in fact, I would bet money that you are copying and pasting from Osama Abdullah's website.  If so, then no wonder you are so confused."

(5) I did not say that you won the debate so you are a liar! I said  that you were lying, cheating, and twisting so that you could win the debate! I never said that you won the debate! You will never win the debate by lying, cheating and twisting everything according to your own liking! You are beaten by your own lies!

(6) You are so immoral and corrupt for slandering Jesus, God and david by saying that Jesus is the only begotten son of God when the Bible says that David is the  begotten son of God ! God is recorded as saying to Prophet David, in Psalms 2:7, �I will tell the decree of the Lord: He said to me, �You are my son, today I have begotten you.� � 

To me it is just another contradiction of the Bible that was done by the keepers of the Bible...I am sure Allah the All Wise will never contradict His own Word! This contradiction proves that God has no sons for God is One and Only according to Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad! After all there is none beside God!



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
Back to Top
AbRah2006 View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 354
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2006 at 12:37pm
Patty's statement:

Was Jesus hung on a tree?

The New Testament uses the word tree five times to refer to Christ's crucifixion on a cross. The references are found in Acts 5:30, 10:39, 13:29, Galatians 3:13 and 1 Peter 2:24. Most of the time, the noun stauros (stake) and the verb stauroo (crucify) are used in connection with Jesus Christ's death. These two words appear 74 times in the New Testament.

One of the five appearances of tree occurs in the book of Galatians. "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us," wrote Paul, "for it is written: `Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree"' (Galatians 3:13)

 

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------

My answer:

Why did the writers of NT used the word tree five times to refer to Christ's crucifixion on a cross? Why did the writers contradict one another by saying 'the Cross' and 'the Tree'? If they and their witnesses had really witnessed the so-called crucifixion of Jesus , they should made the same statement! They made contradictions! The contradictions and errors of the Bible are among the many reasons that cause the corruption of the Bible! 

Let say you and me watch a man hung on the tree so we will say that he is hung on the tree! If you say that he is hung on a cross and I say that that he is hung on lamp post, will the court accept your testimony and mine? You and me are not there so you and me make contradictory statements!

This contradiction has confirmed that Jesus was not crucified!  



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 910111213>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.