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no compulsion - the latest......
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Angela View Drop Down
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Points: 2555 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2006 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by Mishmish Mishmish wrote:

Of course, then we got off on the: well that's what is written but not what it means, conversation...

Perhaps its just that we don't see things the way you do. 

I'd rather be told to shut up than told to wear a burka anyday.

But the problem is that its not God or the Scriptures, its men that oppress women.  Its men that oppress PEOPLE! 

Surely its the fault of the Taliban that so many Afghans are ignorant of the reality and truth of Islam.  The Mullahs that lead the men astray and tell them they have to lock away the women are the real enemy, the men who refuse to allow women to be educated so they can read the Quran and the men who oppose schools where men can read it for themselves are the ones to blame.

The ayat 4:34, is getting old, but women do NOT have equal rights if her husband is allowed to beat her, deny her sex and lock her away.

I don't know the exact ayat, but there is one that says if a woman is guilty of lewdness to lock her away unless she repents.  Do men get locked away for lewdness?  What exactly is lewdness?  Showing ankle, head, cleavage? 

Mishmish,

You can CLAIM all you want women are equal.  Just like people can CLAIM Paul wasn't talking to all women.  Facts are, ALL the Abrahamic faiths subjegate the wife to her husband, father, brothers.  If not, we would need mehrams, guardians and "maintainers".

 
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Mishmish View Drop Down
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Points: 1694 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mishmish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2006 at 2:58pm

Angela:

I am equal. I answer to no man or intermediary for my sins, only to God.

The Quran does not state that a woman needs a mehram to leave her home, that women cannot be the heads of their own households, or that they have to have a guardian. Women have their own businesses, money, property, etc, that Islamically no man can touch. Even if they are mahrem: a close relative or husband.

These verses are referring to unnatural sexual acts: homosexuality.


4:15 If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.

4:16 If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.

Women guilty are locked away until they repent, men are given lashes.

 
It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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Angela View Drop Down
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Points: 2555 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2006 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by Mishmish Mishmish wrote:

Angela:

I am equal. I answer to no man or intermediary for my sins, only to God.

The Quran does not state that a woman needs a mehram to leave her home, that women cannot be the heads of their own households, or that they have to have a guardian. Women have their own businesses, money, property, etc, that Islamically no man can touch. Even if they are mahrem: a close relative or husband.

So, wait, wait, what about 4:34? 

If a woman is married than her husband is her maintainer...if not him then her father or son.  Yes, she has her own property, they cannot touch, but if she ventures out of her house more than a few days than she must have a Mehram with her.  Or do you deny that?
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BMZ View Drop Down
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Points: 1852 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2006 at 12:27am

Angela,

Mishmish is correct.

"So, wait, wait, what about 4:34? 

If a woman is married than her husband is her maintainer...if not him then her father or son.  Yes, she has her own property, they cannot touch, but if she ventures out of her house more than a few days than she must have a Mehram with her.  Or do you deny that?"

Angela, 4:34 does not talk about anything on the topic of Mehrum.

A lady's mehrum is her father, husband, sons, brothers and her own uncles and her father-in-law. As a particular case for an example to show the use of Mehrum, it is applied when ladies are travelling to perform Hajj or Umraah. Wife can go with her husband or son or her father. I cannot cover the whole subject here but hope this helped.

If a woman is going to college or University or to office, she does not require a Mehrum.

Were Mehrums required for everything, Muslim men won't be working or doing anything!  

In my own case, I am the Mehrum who has been driving, dropping and picking up my wife all the time for so many years but I could afford that because I have been self-employed. My friends' wives are not-so-lucky.  Pssst...She doesn't drive car even though she has had a driving licence for over twenty years.  But she does call for a cab, when I am extremely busy.

 



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