no compulsion - the latest......

Mishmish wrote: Angela: I am equal. I answer to no man or intermediary for my sins, only to God. The Quran does not state that a woman needs a mehram to leave her home, that women cannot be the heads of their own households, or that they have to have a guardian. Women have their own businesses, money, property, etc, that Islamically no man can touch. Even if they are mahrem: a close relative or husband.

So, wait, wait, what about 4:34? 

If a woman is married than her husband is her maintainer...if not him then her father or son.  Yes, she has her own property, they cannot touch, but if she ventures out of her house more than a few days than she must have a Mehram with her.  Or do you deny that?

Mishmish wrote: Of course, then we got off on the: well that's what is written but not what it means, conversation...

Perhaps its just that we don't see things the way you do. 

I'd rather be told to shut up than told to wear a burka anyday.

But the problem is that its not God or the Scriptures, its men that oppress women.  Its men that oppress PEOPLE! 

Surely its the fault of the Taliban that so many Afghans are ignorant of the reality and truth of Islam.  The Mullahs that lead the men astray and tell them they have to lock away the women are the real enemy, the men who refuse to allow women to be educated so they can read the Quran and the men who oppose schools where men can read it for themselves are the ones to blame.

The ayat 4:34, is getting old, but women do NOT have equal rights if her husband is allowed to beat her, deny her sex and lock her away.

I don't know the exact ayat, but there is one that says if a woman is guilty of lewdness to lock her away unless she repents.  Do men get locked away for lewdness?  What exactly is lewdness?  Showing ankle, head, cleavage? 

Mishmish,

You can CLAIM all you want women are equal.  Just like people can CLAIM Paul wasn't talking to all women.  Facts are, ALL the Abrahamic faiths subjegate the wife to her husband, father, brothers.  If not, we would need mehrams, guardians and "maintainers".

You know, while looking over Mishmish's post above me, I came to another question.

Why is it in Jewish Synagogues and Mosques, women must sit apart from the men?  So much so in Mosques that there is a screen put between them so neither sex can see the other.  But, in Christian Churches, the women set with the men without any separation?

Perhaps doctrinally Christians are NO DIFFERENT than Jews and Muslims in the division of women and men, yet we do not practice it? 

Or is it that all three faiths have their issues with equality????

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.  23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.  24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

34. Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

Both of these verses indicate to me that God has decreed the man to be the head of the household.  He is to be the provider and spiritual guide to the family.  So, why is it wrong for Paul to demand women submit to their husbands when the Quran and Hadiths give men the power over their women and the choice to give them power over themselves.

Book 29, Number 29.4.16:

Yahya related to me from Malik that he had heard that Abdullah ibn Umar and Abu Hurayra were asked about a man who gave his wife power over herself, and she returned it to him without doing anything with it. They said that there was no divorce. (i.e. The man's giving his wife power over herself was not interpreted as a desire for divorce on his part.)

Yahya related to me from Malik from Yahya ibn Said that Said ibn al-Musayyab said, "If a man gives his wife authority over herself, and she does not separate from him and remains with him, there is no divorce."

Malik said that a woman whose husband gave her power over herself and they separated while she was unwilling, had no power to revoke the divorce. She only had power over herself as long as they remained together.

Annie,

"Paul's letters were to specific churches in response to their specific needs or concerns."

Yeah! Paul was issuing directives from foreign lands, instead of the elders doing the same from Jeruslem. Any letters should have been issued by the Church in Jerusalem and it would have been more convincing. Sadly, that was not done. Paul has the honour of being the First Dictator of a religion.   

Mishmish wrote: "I do not need men to interpret the Word of God in the Quran, it speaks for itself."

and Annie, you replied:"You need commentaries in order to understand what is going."

Don't you, Annie? OK, how would you explain this without any commentary: He said to Jesus, "My Lord, my God!"

Without any commentary from you, I can safely say that the guy expressed a surprise when he addressed Jesus as Lord, which in Semitic languages is a very common term.

My Arab driver and supervisor call me Lord too, but that does not mean I am Lord the God. Saying "my God" or "My God" did not confirm that Thomas was calling Jesus the Lord God. So, Thomas said,"My lord" which means My lord Jesus and then said, just an example from me: " 'My God', I can't believe you are here safe and sound, Jesus."

From you, Annie: "I didn't expect you an respond to what I posted in reqard to the Qur'an.  My point was that if you take verses in the Bible out of context, you can come up with the wrong impression.  You seemed to what to interpret them as you saw fit.  My point is that I can do the same with the Qur'an."

OK, please do the same with verses of Qur'aan and I will oblige.

From you, Annie: The whole Bible was written by men as instructed by God Almighty.  Men and women are equal in right's according the New Testament.

Men and women are equal in the sight of God.

Annie, I don't think you are that misinformed, when you wrote:The Qur'an was written by men too.  From the angel to a man, from that man to other men and then other men to correct the Qur'ans that were in error and made a standard by Ulthman.

Qur'aan was recited by the Arch-Angel, Gabriel of Judaism and Christianity, to a Prophet who recited to his people, who in turn heard him and wrote EXACTLY what he recited. I think you are allergic to Uthman like I am allergic to Paul.  Uthman was not sitting alone like Paul, issuing letetrs and writing verses. There were hundreds of Prophet's Companions and Scribes with him.

Annie, this comment of yours, I am afraid, would fall in the category of "And the stuff".    The hands of men are in the commentaries of the Qur'an.  How do you know that these men are correct?  Most Mulsims cannot read the original dialect, very few I understand.  I have seen many Muslims argue about the meaning of some of the ayas.

You don't even have any copy of the original texts in Aramaic and Hebrew. You can't even read Greek or Koine Greek and discuss only basing on what you have been told in English. Even then the English is not clear either.

1.2 billion Muslims believe only in the One God Almighty with all their hearts, all their minds and all their souls. That is what matters most. Those who know Qur'aan can teach others. You may ask me any verse and I will explain to you.

You can see "the hand of this man" when I write any commentary at your request but the message of God Almighty will remain the same, Annie!