Jesus is God (or not) |
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Akhe Abdullah
Senior Member Male Joined: 19 November 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1252 |
Posted: 29 May 2009 at 5:24am | |
Edited by Akhe Abdullah - 29 May 2009 at 10:36pm |
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Mansoor_ali
Senior Member Male Joined: 25 September 2008 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 584 |
Posted: 29 May 2009 at 2:38pm | |
Jewish and Christian Arabs used the word "Allah" for GOD before Islam. See historical and archeological evidence and most recent discoveries in the Middle East. |
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JOUBERAR
Guest Group Joined: 13 March 2009 Status: Offline Points: 573 |
Posted: 29 May 2009 at 3:04pm | |
If Allah was before islam then Muhammad borrowed it to create his own religion then islam is false religion.
Tales from Jewish Folklore in the Quran
The Story of Cain and the Burial of Abel's Body By far the greatest number of portions of the quran Qur�an that can be shown to have pre-Islamic origins are those that relate to Jewish folklore and other fables that were woven around Biblical narratives in the Old Testament. The quran Qur�an has been described as "a compendium of Talmudic Judaism" as a result of the wealth of Midrashic and Mishnaic material that has been repeated in it. It is well-known that Muhammad could read neither the Scripture of the Jews nor their folklore and, as he heard stories of Jewish antiquity repeated in market-places and elsewhere, he was unable to distinguish fact from fable and both appear side-by-side in his holy book. The evidences appear to disprove the claim that the quran Qur�an was revealed to him from above and the conclusion can hardly be resisted that it represents various materials that came to him from conversations, story-telling and other sources in day-to-day contact with the Jews in Arabia. The quranic Qur�anic account of the murder of Abel by his unrighteous brother Cain is a typical mixture of elements from the Bible, Midrash and Mishnah. It is set out in Surah 5. 30-35 and begins with a statement that when they each presented an offering to God only the sacrifice of one of them was accepted. Thus far it records Biblical material (Genesis 4.4) but it then records a dialogue between the two brothers (who are not named) in which the one whose offering was rejected threatens to slay the other. The righteous brother responds by reaffirming his faith in God and states he will not attempt to slay him in turn (Surah 5. 30-32). There is no parallel for this in Genesis but it is typical of the quranic Qur�anic tendency to record conversations between unbelievers and the righteous, particularly where the former threaten the latter (an experience Muhammad himself endured regularly during his years in Mecca). Despite the faithful brother's response his wicked brother killed him. The passage then proceeds to add this incident which also has no parallel in the Biblical narrative: Then Allah sent a raven who scratched in the ground to show him how to hide the shame of his brother. Surah 5.34 There is an analogy, however, to this statement in a rabbinical work of Jewish fables and myths known as the Pirke Rabbi Eliezer contained in the section of Talmudic writings known as the Midrash. It predates the quran Qur�an by many centuries. In this book it is said that Adam and Eve wept when they found Abel's body and did not know what to do with it as burial was unknown to them. Then came a raven, whose companion had died, and it took its body, scratched in the earth, and buried it before their eyes. Adam then decided to do likewise and he buried Abel's body in the earth. The only difference between the incident in the quran Qur�an and the story in the Midrash is that Cain is recorded as burying Abel's body in the former and Adam in the latter. Otherwise the sequel is the same. The slight variation is typical of what might be expected in the record of a man who was relying exclusively on hearsay and secondary sources because he could not read the books his Jewish storytellers were quoting. That he has borrowed from a fable in Jewish folklore, however, seems obvious. The next verse, however, also can be shown to have been derived from Talmudic material, in this case the Mishnah. It reads: For that reason we inscribed for the Children of Israel that if anyone slew another person, other than for murder or spreading corruption in the earth, it would be as if he slew all mankind; and if anyone saved the life of one it would be as if he had saved all mankind. Surah 5.35 This verse appears to have no connection with the story preceding it. Why the life or death of one person whould be as the salvation or destruction of all mankind is not clear. The Mishnah, however, has an interesting passage indicating its source and the connection between them: We find it said in the case of Cain who murdered his brother, "The voice of thy brother's bloods crieth" (Genesis 4.10). It is not said here blood in the singular, but bloods in the plural, that is, his own blood and the blood of his seed. Man was created single in order to show that to him who kills a single individual it shall be reckoned that he has slain the whole race, but to him who preserves the life of a single individual it is counted that he hath preserved the whole race. Other Apocryphal Christian Origins and Sources A number of other legends and fables from heretical Christian works have been repeated in the quran Qur�an. In Surah 18. 9-26 the quran Qur�an contains a strange tale about a few youths, true believers in God, who took refuge from persecution in a cave where they fell asleep for a number of years. They are called ashabal-kahf, "Companions of the Cave" (Surah 18.9) and it is said that when they awoke they were amazed to find they had slept for so long. The story has many parallels in apocryphal Christian works, such as the Acta Sanctorum compiled by the Syriac writer Jacob of Sarug shortly before his death in 521 AD. In fact the earliest record of this legend dates no earlier than four centuries after Christ. It was mentioned by Theodosius and by Dionysius of Tell Mahra in a Syriac work of the fifth century. It has become popularly known as the story of the "seven Sleepers" as the records generally agree that there were seven of them. The cave was said to have been near Ephesus and the sleepers were Christians fleeing from persecution during the reign of Decius the Emperor who died in 251 AD. The cave was sealed over them after they had hidden in it but during the reign of Theodosius the Second nearly two hundred years later it was opened and one of the refugees awoke and went through the city amazed to find Christianity triumphant. They then told the Emperor God had preserved them as a witness whereupon they expired. There is no obvious source for the story itself and if it was in any way built as a legend around Biblical material it could only be from Matthew 27. 52-53. Its inclusion in the quran Qur�an again proves that much of the teaching of the book is founded on mythical origins. This conclusion is strengthened by the paucity of details in the quranic Qur�anic narrative. It does not say when or where it occurred nor that the men were Christians. Muhammad also did not know their number for the quran Qur�an says that some say three, others five, yet others seven, without giving its own decision on the matter (Surah 18.22) and he also did not know how long it was, saying three hundred years plus a possible nine (Surah 18.25). This ambiguity argues against the claim that the quran Qur�an came from al alim al-�Alim, "the All-Knowing" Lord of the Universe, and suggests rather that it was simply Muhammad's own version of it according to the limited knowledge he possessed. |
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Mansoor_ali
Senior Member Male Joined: 25 September 2008 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 584 |
Posted: 30 May 2009 at 3:09pm | |
What about Christianity? Taken from http://www.answering-christianity.com/abdullah_smith/the_crucifixion_hoax_4.htm The Gospels Plagiarized There are many parallels between the Gospels and the Scriptures of
ancient religions. Scholars have collected hundreds of similarities between Christ and the
hindu god "I am
the goal of life, the LORD and support of all, the inner witness, the abode of all. I am
the only refuge, the ONE true friend; I am the
beginning, the staying, and the end of creation; I am the womb and the eternal seed. I
am heat; I give and withhold the rain. I am immortality and I am death; I am what is and
what is not" [Bhagavad Gita 9:18-19] This statement was plagiarized by the New Testament and put into Jesus� mouth: I am Alpha and Omega, the
beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is
to come, the Almighty. (Revelations 1:8) I am Alpha and Omega, the
beginning and the end, the first and the last. (Revelations 22:13) Another passage is borrowed from the scriptures of Buddhism. The Buddha walked upon the water: He walks upon the water without parting it, as if on solid ground.
ANGUTTARA NIKAYA 3.60 ..." The Buddhist miracle was plagiarized by the synoptic Gospels: And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus
went unto them, walking on the sea. (Mark 14:25, John 6:19) The sayings of Jesus were plagiarized from the Jewish teacher Hillel, and many other Pharisee rabbis. "Most of his [Jesus'] teachings, most of
the words ascribed to him, conform to the tenets of Pharisaic thinking. Indeed, some of
his most famous pronouncements are paraphrases, even on occasion almost direct quotations,
from Hillel." �With the possible
exception of the saying about forgiving one�s enemies (and even this is disputed),
there is absolutely nothing in the sermon in Matthew, chapters 5 to 7 --- paralleled by
Luke�s Sermon on the Plain � that cannot
be found in the Jewish sources.�. (Tom Harper, The Pagan
Christ, p. 139) The Pharisee teacher Hillel said: What is hateful to you, do not do to your
fellow man: this is the whole law, the rest is
commentary. (Talmud, SHABAT 31a) There are many parallels of this teaching in various scriptures: "Hurt not others in ways that you
yourself would find hurtful." � Udana-Varga 5:18,
Buddhism "What you do not want done to yourself,
do not do to others." Analects of
Confucius 15:24, Confucianism Do not impose on others what you yourself do
not desire." - Doctrine of the Mean
13.3, Confucianism. "Do
not do to others what would anger you if done to you by others." - Socrates. "This is the sum of duty: Do naught unto
others which would cause you pain if done to you." - Mahabharata 5:1517, Hinduism. This famous saying was borrowed and put into Jesus� mouth. "In everything do to others what you
would have them do to you, for this sums up the law
and the prophets." (Matthew 7:12) The sayings of Jesus (called the Logia) were plagiarized completely, as the scholar Tom Harper emphasizes: �There is plenty of evidence to show that these sayings were not first uttered by Jesus or invented afterwards by his followers. Many of them were pre-existent, pre-historic, and therefore pre-Christian. They were collections of Egyptian, Hebrew, and Gnostic sayings�. (Tom Harper, The Pagan Christ, p. 140) Tom Harper continues: There is a huge amount of evidence that the core of the spiritual tradition handed down from earliest times was incorporated into collections of the most outstanding and vital utterances spoken by the Christos figure in the cryptic dramas and rituals of the past. These collations of �sacred utterances of the divine Son of humans� were circulated, in secret, all over the ancient world under the name the Logia, or �sayings of the Lord�. Having thoroughly weighed the research, I now believe they were the root documents from which the canonical Gospels were extracted. Then, to cover deterioration and suit the various emerging communities of Christians, they were amended, interpolated, and edited by many scribes. I am convinced that this explanation is as near to being the truth of the source, origin, and nature of the Christian Gospels as can be determined. (ibid, pp. 140-141) |
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honeto
Senior Member Male Islam Joined: 20 March 2008 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2487 |
Posted: 01 June 2009 at 6:30pm | |
Jouberar,
a fake religion is the one that asks a person to worship something other than their Creator.
As for fact there is only one religion in today's world that teaches and reserves the worship only to the Creator, and no one else, absolute monothiestic concept of God. And guess which religion is that? with no buts or ifs.
No religion is fake, they are just deviations from the One true path that the creator has illuminated for us throughout human existance, some keep putting out that light on that path but the Mercyful Creator keep lighting up that straight path for us, for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, and have a stomach for the truth and a desire to meet their Lord. And who humble themselves to Him, and seek His forgiveness, whcih He has promised for those who remember Him in every thought and action of theirs.
Peace,
Hasan Edited by honeto - 01 June 2009 at 6:40pm |
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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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BMZ
Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
Posted: 01 June 2009 at 7:19pm | |
My apologies on that, Doo-bop. God is just an English word, quite commonly used by people of all faiths. Even atheists use the same word when rejecting God. BMZ |
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Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
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JOUBERAR
Guest Group Joined: 13 March 2009 Status: Offline Points: 573 |
Posted: 02 June 2009 at 1:03am | |
OK Hassan I worship nothing and and you want convert me to a muslim how are gonna do it come on show me how are gonna introduce me to a God that you have never seen only heard of him.
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JOUBERAR
Guest Group Joined: 13 March 2009 Status: Offline Points: 573 |
Posted: 02 June 2009 at 5:56am | |
There is no parallels between the hindu and Christian scriptures although they is very peace full, hindu is a name and not a religion and derives from the river sindhu in the time of Christ there were no historical mentioning of budhist around Isreal.
Hinduism has no founder, nor any traditional time or place of origin; it emerges from the jungle as a continually evolving religious system Edited by JOUBERAR - 02 June 2009 at 8:57am |
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