Let's take down this movie against Issah

Assalamu Alaykum Brothers and Sisters!

Let's take down this movie against Jesus, accusing him of love (fahisha) with Satan and that God, Mary and Joseph had love (fahisha)!

Signup the petition: http://tiny.cc/am13hz

What a absurd and blasphemy that each muslim needs to reject, even though we know the differences between Issah in the Holy Quran, and Jesus on the Gospel. Maybe next time these pervert zionists will mock our Prophet Muhammad (saws)!

This is a well know "comedy" show here in Brazil which mocks everyone and everything. So anyone can signup this petition, even from outside Brazil, so please let's signup to take down that show, and maybe close their doors, Insha Allah.

If an idea cannot withstand being mocked it is not much of an idea.

There will always be somebody who is saying stuff you don't like. Unlucky. Grow up.

MIAW wrote:

Tim the plumber wrote:

If an idea cannot withstand being mocked it is not much of an idea.

There will always be somebody who is saying stuff you don't like. Unlucky. Grow up.

@ Tim,

Inadvertently, You have touched a huuuuge subject!

Not inadvertent. Very positively deliberate.

You are obviously talking about the subject of 'Freedom of Speech' (or even worse: 'Freedom of Expression')... a subject that is turning into the biggest controversy/blunder/hypocrisy in human history.

You have a very very tiny view of history. The Mongol invasions killed many millions. Hundreds of millions. Have a sense of perspective.

Just type (e.g. on google) 'does freedom of expression have limits?'... and if you do a bit of research, you will find that the West (especially) has got itself into all sorts of situations about this, and does not know what to do about it anymore.

It is a constant battle to maintain freedom. It is a constant state of discussion and argument. There are plenty of people opposed to openness and progress bith of which stop with limiting people to not allowing offense. It was offensive for Galeleo to show that the world was a sphere.

People who advocate 'Mocking' an idea go beyond 'rejecting' it... they want 'total freedom'... even if it means 'offending' others.

You do not have the freedom to not be offended. Unlucky. Deal with it. It is time be be an adult. There will always be those who offend you. Islam offends me. So what?

But then, if you research this, you will find that those (politicians/legislators/Media...etc) who are 'pushing' for total/unlimited freedom, are now (hypocritically) 'choosing' where to put 'exceptions'... and they are now saying that there is a difference between 'offending' (acceptable) and 'harming' (unacceptable), but at the same time 'A number of European countries that take pride in freedom of speech nevertheless outlaw speech that might be interpreted as Holocaust denial' for example.

I agree that such laws should be removed. Although I would llike to see a law that said if you present something as science and lie then you go to jail. That would mean that you could deny the killing of millions of people by Nazi Germany during WWII but scientifically you would be wrong. The person stating that scientifically you are wrong to deny it could be forced to back up his cliam in court. Which would obviously be very easy to do.

And yet, Muslims are criticized for being offended by the denigrating portrayal of their prophets (like Jesus PBUH in the subject of this thread, or Muhammad PBUH through cartoons, or the Qur'an...etc).

You get the right to criticise the people doing the denigrating. You get to say they are children who know nothing. They get to do the same to you.

Another example: Some people say that they have the 'unlimited' right to put libel, slander, pornography, obscenity, fighting words, and intellectual property on the internet, even if it has now become extremely easy for anyone to get access to it (including children...etc).

Pornography is supposed to belimited. Although of course children have always passed porn between them behind the bike sheds at school. Incitement to violence is generally not allowed. You get to tell me I am a fool for not believing in Allah but you don't get to call for my death.

And then, of course, you have Atheists such as yourself, who claim 'not to be offended by anything whatsoever'

I am offended by a very many things. I am offended by all religions and all religious type thinking, I include communism and post modermis in that.

... because they think that they are very 'slippery' (i.e. they have nothing to grab'em from)... they have no symbols/beliefs whatsoever... no god... no prophets, no religion or scriptures...etc... so they are 'at bay' from any offending act/speech, and therefore they don't care for anyone who gets offended by anything... but this is also a two-faced hypocrisie... because some of them get offended by any act/speech against LGBT (if they are gay themselves), or against women's lib.

Again. You are just not getting it. I am offended by a lot of things. I have to deal with that.

Islam, if understood and applied properly, teaches us to have freedom of speech/expression... but this freedom is limited: it stops where other people's starts. It teaches us to respect other peoples' beliefs... non-Muslims were never mocked or forced to abandon their beliefs throughout the history of Islam...

Wrong. That is happening today. I can give you plenty of examples.

compare that to the Spanish Inquisition (where Muslims and Jews were forced to convert to Catholicism through all sorts of mockery, torture, burning, murder...etc).

Yeah, all religions hae the same look to me.

So, to wrap up...

Tim the plumber wrote:

...If an idea cannot withstand being mocked it is not much of an idea...

Wrong. An idea can be criticized, rejected, argued against (with evidence presented), but not mocked.

Mockery is one of the most powerful methods of exposing a bad idea. Today we mock the idea of falling off the edge of the world. We mock the idea that traveliong faster than 30 miles per hour will crush your chest and make it impossible to breath. We mock the idea that we need to sacrifice somebody at May over the village well to make the harvest bountiful.

No Offence intended.

Feel free to offend me to the maximum. I am not new to internet debates. I get far far more aggressive personal attacks in other forums and subject areas. The gloves are off in those. It is part of adult debate about stuff that matters that you will get high emotions. This always translates into harsh attacks. It is needed to thrash out ideas properly. Us humans don't just communicate through dry logical absolutes. We need to feel the other person's emotions.

That's why mockery is so powerful.

I think a compelling case can be made that the bedrock of "freedom of speech" as well as debate is in fact civility and not mockery. You will find that in some arguably advanced Western societies mockery will land you in prison. Indeed when enjoying a light moment mockery can have it's place, but with respect to serious debate of issues effecting people's lives, mockery is simply hubris.