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Why not believe in God?

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Harry View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 April 2006 at 4:33am
Are all non-believers atheists? The answer is �no�.  Atheists believe no God exists. While non-believers may simply reject that a particular kind of God exists. Muslims reject the Christian God, while Christians reject the Islamic God. Each religion claims that people who reject the existence of their God are non-believers. So let us see who is right. Both of these religions claim the following:

1. God is all powerful (omnipotent)
2. God is all knowing (omniscient)
3. God is compassionate, merciful, loves and cares about each and every one of us
4. God will punish all non-believers with eternal hell fire

Now, when we add up all four cases above, we find that the results can only be an imaginary God. Only three of the above statements can ever be attributed to a real God. Did I lose you? Then let me explain each step in detail.

1. God is omnipotent: Just like God can allow the existence of souls, God can prevent the existence of souls as well. God can choose what souls will exist. An omnipotent God can easily prevent the conception of a fetus that leads to the birth of a new soul.
2. God is omniscient: God knows the present, past and the future. We know God knows the future because God prophesied the future to us. If God knows the future, then God knows what each soul will choose to believe before that soul even comes into existence. Even though we have the freedom to choose what to believe, an omniscient God still must know what we will choose beforehand. If God did not know beforehand what we would choose to believe, then God could not prophecy the future accurately, as mankind would then shape the future based on what they choose to believe. For instance, if all of mankind chose to believe that technology is a sin (some actually do), could God accurately prophesy that oil burning automobiles would someday exist? To know that automobiles would exist, God would have to know beforehand that at least one soul would choose to disbelieve in the sin of technology.  
3. God is compassionate, merciful, loves and cares about each and every one of us: God loves every soul when that soul first comes into existence. God gave us all the freedom to choose what to believe. God wants us all to choose to believe in God and live eternally in God�s presence.
4. God will punish all non-believers with eternal hell fire: God gave us all the freedom to choose, and if we choose not to believe in God and follow God�s laws, then God will punish us by sending us to hell.

We see that the fourth statement contradicts the first three. If God can prevent non-believers from existing, but allows those non-believers to come into existence while knowing that those non-believers must be punished with hell-fire, then God cannot be compassionate and merciful. In other words, if God knows that a particular soul will choose to be a non-believer, but still allows that soul to come into existence, then a compassionate and merciful God cannot punish such a soul with hell-fire. And it does not matter if we have the freedom to choose to believe or not believe, because God can still prevent the existence of those that God knows will choose to not believe, and thus destined to punishment by fire. We can take each one of the statements above and show that it can only be true if one of the other three is false. For instance, If statement four is true, then either God is powerless to prevent certain types of souls from existing, or God does not know beforehand what each soul will choose to believe, or God is not compassionate and merciful.

So we see, both, the Christian doctrine and the Islamic doctrine are flawed and neither one of the Gods they describe can be real. Does that mean God does not exist. Not at all, but we do know that the Gods that these two religions are based on can only exist in someone�s imagination. Is it any wonder that no one has ever seen these Gods? Is it any wonder that when disaster strikes, there is no distinction amongst those who suffer based on what their belief is? The indiscriminate suffering we see in the world is an indication that at least one of the first three statements mentioned above must be false and thus proof that the Gods described by these statements are simply imaginary.

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Mishmish View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mishmish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2006 at 9:05am

Interesting, but Muslims do believe in the same God that the Christians and the Jews believe in, there is only one God. Furthermore, Muslims do not believe that non-believers will be punished with eternal hell fire. We believe that people will be punished according to their deeds and intentions, but God is extremely Merciful and Forgiving and only God knows our punishment.

All people born will die, yet why do people continue to have babies that they know will face certain death? Do they have children to torture them? As a cruel joke? Of course not.

If you commit a crime, say murder someone, you know that there is a good chance you will be caught and punished for this crime. Sometimes this is a deterrent, sometimes not. However, if you are of sound mind and realise what punishment you might face yet commit the murder anyway, then you choose to possibly face that punishment. That is your choice.

Scientifically we are taught that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. It is Newton's Third Law.

What if you do a murder and never get caught? What if you spend your entire life molesting small children and never get caught? You have taken the action, what is the equal but opposite reaction? Do you think there will be no consequences for these actions ever?

If you have no punishment for these actions on this earth, when will you be punished? When you will face the consequences of what you do?

God is not cruel or unjust ever. He tells us exactly what we need to do. He has given us the rules and the ability to understand these rules, all we have to do is choose to follow them.

 

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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salman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2006 at 12:09am

Allah has mentioned in the Qur'an that if any one follows any other religion other than Islam he is among the losers.

even if any one believes in god but follows some other religion, he will remain in hell fire forever.

because Islam contains worship (ibadah) and the act of bowing and prostration to Allah The Most High and there are many other things which make muslims different from people who follow religions other than Islam.

Allah states in the Holy Qur'an:

"The Religion in the sight of Allah is Islam." (Qur'an 3:19)

"If unyone desires a religion other than Islam (Submission to Allah), Never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (their selves in the hell fire)."(Qur'an 3:85)

In addition, Islam is the only religion prevailing over all other religions. Allah states in the Holy Qur'an:

"To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety:..." (Qur'an 5:48)

harry, i suggest that you gain more knowledge of why Islam is the true and unique religion ( if Allah wills )

It is better to be alone than to be in bad company.
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superme View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote superme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2006 at 1:34am

This is very nice article, maybe copy and paste maybe you work it out yourself. If this is the later than as a muslim I say masha Allah.

In the past people much more interest in a personal God that they can relate what they have sometjing in mind - and He gives the reply in person, a sort of fatherly figure. If they were informed bluntly that this is not the case it would create the feeling of despair among the illiterate population at that time. Let alone in the past, this include today's people.

Believe in God is the first step for a believer. Once he/she is reasonably equiped with theological datas he or she must step forward into knowing him by constantly thinking of Him through the available knowledges. The more the person makes an ernest effort the more he/she will understand what Allah is. In the khadith Qudsy the expression works like this:

When my servant approachs me walking - I am welcoming him running

Once the person knows what he is worshipping than any other influence to dislodge him/her from believing in God is futile works. The best thing they can do is to kill him, because he knows what Allah is.

The multiple use of WE, HE and I in the Qur'an should be a good distance flashing light in the dark to approach. Believe in him, know him, love him. Longing to meet him should be the end result. Shall we start while we have time?

And with Him are the keys of the Invisible. None but He knoweth them. And He knoweth what is in the land and the sea.
Not a leaf falleth but He knoweth it,
not a grain amid the darkness of the earth,
naught of wet or dry but (noted) in a clear record. (6:59)

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Harry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2006 at 1:44am
Salman,
You say I need to be educated in Islam . But I read two replies to my post and each describe a different doctrine regarding who will suffer hellfire. What you did not tell me is if I choose to be a skeptic for whatever reason and do not believe Allah is real, which of the other three statements regarding the Islamic doctrine must be false. I cannot see how all four statements can be true. They simply cannot, as there is a clear contradiction. You may want to re-read what I have written and tell me how it is possible for all four to be true. Mishmish tried, but in his analogy, he used human behavior to suggest God would behave in the same manner. Even if that is the case, his analogy is still flawed. Are we suggesting that when God allows atheists to come into existence, God does so to be merciful and allow atheists to live happily for a brief moment here on earth and then make them suffer eternally after they die? To believe that, we must believe atheists would somehow suffer worse if they did not exist at all. I am convinced the merciful thing would be to simply not allow atheists to come into existence in the first place if their final destiny is eternal hellfire. Let me elaborate on Mishmish�s analogy. If I knew beforehand that my children would suffer before (or after) they die, I would not have children (Many people actually choose not to have children because there is a chance the children would suffer in someway). If I choose to have children knowing beforehand that they will suffer in someway (especially eternal hellfire), then I am not a compassionate being. At least Mishmish tried to sidetrack the issue by claiming that non-believers will not automatically suffer hellfire eternally. But I want to thank you, Salman, for pointing out that Mishmish is wrong and I was right  about the Islamic doctrine with regards to hell. I also am amazed when people suggest a certain religion must be a true religion because a book that was written by human beings says so. I know of no human being that does not have the ability to lie, imagine or invent stories. And I have no reason to believe that all human beings that ever lived do not have that same ability. If the intent of a doctrine was to create a better world, that is is fine, but let us recognize it for what it is. If I write a book and in that book I state that the book is the word of God, that does not automatically make it so. But apparently many people would believe my lie .

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Harry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2006 at 2:04am
Superme,
Many have seen the illogical doctrines that Islam and Christianity are based upon. You can claim that these people really did not ever know God in the first place, but then who is to say. Most were convinced just as surely as you are in the existence of their God. But they slowly came to realize that if something does not make sense, then it is not the truth. The truth will always make sense. I pointed out in my original post how the two leading religious doctrines fail to make sense in the same exact way. Either I am missing something that no one has been able to explain to me yet or some people will likewise see the nonsense of these doctrines that are used today.
By the way, I left out one important fifth statement that must be mentioned as well.
5. God is unchanging.
I think it is self-evident how this statement is important to my original post.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2006 at 2:46am
Both religions also believe God is beyond human comprehension. 

You need to add that to your list of presumptions, Harry.
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatima Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2006 at 9:46am

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

well im glad u have one fact straight which is we cant expect to explain The Will of our Lord on our logic, its quite a conincidence that just couple of days ago i noticed one thing in Holy Quran that when there is a mention of disbelievers and their abode in hell, the arabic word 'Abada' which means forever dont come (brother and sisters if im wrong please help me out here cos i want2 know if there is an ayah), now most of time when our Lord most generous mentions people of heaven this word does come, now it could be my lack of knowledge but people who are disbelievers would live in hell but how long and what their end would be, its not with us

now another fact u can neva use the parable of parents and kids with our relation with our Lord, He is our Lord, gives us every thing, nothing in this world we could have done to deserve this life or the blessings in it, now as we know it, most religion say that life is a test, now u said that why cant u see God? well dont u think if u could see God that wont be a test for u to actually follow him, u can see him whats stopping u believing in him then,

another thing if it was very simple and easy that u could actually understand the wisdom behind the fact that why God lets disbelievers live and enjoy the blessings of this life and then burns them in hell, how would that be a test, now u debate the fact God cannot be called Most Mercifull and then that He punishes his creation with hell fire, well this is one of the attributes of our lord, this is not ALL about our lord (u can read attributes of our Lord in Quran and Sunnah section), our lord tells us that He is exact in retribution, now although we human, finite created beings cant use our own example but do u think being a kind hearted person can stop u being a good judge? i dont think so, explore the world of Allah swt with thirst of knowldge and truth not with the doubt

lastly u said something about why should some1 believe in what a book says as a book is only written by a human, now i want to see whether u looking for truth or trouble , if u have time can u find me scientific reason behind why a child resembles his father (or his side of family) and why he resembles his mother (or her side of family), when u do then il tell u why i can have doubt bout reality of my life but not this Book

wassalam

Say: (O Muhammad) If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
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