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Why do some oppose religions?

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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2019 at 2:16am
Originally posted by Noor-e-hidayat Noor-e-hidayat wrote:

Not Agreed with you .......You said what you observe, it's not 100% sure that you are right or wrong as observing by own yourself.
 


I agee that I cannot be 100% confident that I am at all right.

It is just how I see it. Please persuade me that I am wrong and show me the right way of thinking about all this. Truth is far more important than my ego.
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asep garutea View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garutea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2019 at 6:19am
Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

Just watching a Utube video. One idea in it is that the neo-Marxist-Post-Modernist Lefties who are the scurge of interlectual debate in the west are those who oppose the idea of the autonomous individual.

Sorry for all the big words but...

I agree with this and further think I would put the burth of the enlightenment and birth or science, the industrial revolution and triuph of the west down to free speach its' self.

That is all those wonders of humanity are the diret reult of free speach.

I find religious thinking to be the opposite of freedom of thought so I oppose religion.
Religion is a system that regulates faith (belief) and worship of God and which regulates the relationship between humans and humans and their environment.
The example that you gave me does not describe religious life because as far as I have observed that religion can be categorized into two types namely:
1. Celestial Religion
2. Cultural Religion

As for the characteristics of Celestial Religion, among others:

1. Religion was not created by humans, but came from Allah (God)
2. Religion did not grow from society, but was passed down to society from Allah who created the universe.

Many people consider a particular school of beliefs, spirituality and values ​​to be a religion. But in my opinion it's not necessarily a religion. While the concept of celestial religion is a complete set of teachings that came down from heaven (from Allah). Because celestial religion is also often called the religion of Wahyu (revelation).
,Wahyu is not just supernatural or magical words, but contains laws that govern all order of human life, ranging from the most super micro problems to the super macro. Including mutual respect and help in the goodness and piety of Allah.
3. Spoken by God's chosen people (Prophets / Apostles).
Their function and task is to convey all the wishes, orders, rules, sharia, laws from God to humanity. They are not given the authority to create their own teachings. They are human beings not gods, so there is no concept of worship to them.
4. Having a holy book that is clean from the interference of the human mind.
5. The concept of God is absolute monotheism (Tawhid), etc.

The characteristics of Cultural Religion include:

1. Its teachings were created, composed and made by humans.
2. Some have books that they consider sacred and some don't.
3. Valid only for tribal groups or for certain groups.
4. Usually have the concept that God is a lot (polytheism), etc.

Therefore, the true understanding of religion, in my opinion, is not to order to kill one another unless under threat.

You said:
"What good thing do you think religion does?"

With the right religion, we will get several benefits including:

1. Humans will get guidance from their God so that they can position themselves as God's most perfect creatures.
2. Humans can distinguish between good behavior and bad behavior.
3. Humans will know several events in the past, present, and future.
4. Humans can maintain their dignity as a noble creature created by God.
5. Humans can maintain the soul, heart, and reason in accordance with their fitrah (nature).
6. Humans can feel the existence of their Lord.
7. There are still human beings who will enter His heaven. Etc.


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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2019 at 11:18am
asep garutea,

Not sure what your point is there.

Mine is that I see the whole advancement of humanity/the Enlightement/science to be dependant upon the freeing of human though from the straight jacket of religion.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MIAW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2019 at 12:45pm

Referring to your boxed quote 'Religion an Society' (post 3 above):

(Yourself) Being an atheist, I know that you may not want to hear this... but here it is:

Everything we do in our lives should be in accordance with the Will of God. Islam came specifically to guide people away from those kinds of (human-invented) rituals and practices. God put us on this Earth, so it is only fair that He (Alone) Tells us how He Wants us to live, and what we are allowed to do, and what we are not allowed. Similarly: if you invent a machine, then you would provide guidance and instructions about how it should be used, at what speed, how to maintain it in good working order...etc... And that is why, in Islam, we are strictly instructed to follow the guidance of our Creator... because He Knows Us better than we know ourselves. ولله المثل الاعلى

In (many verses in) the Qur'an, God (Allah SWT) Addresses the whole of mankind (that is... you, me and every human who has ever existed)... here are some examples:

[2:21] O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous -

[4:1] O mankind, fear your Lord, who created you from one soul and created from it its mate and dispersed from both of them many men and women. And fear Allah , through whom you ask one another, and the wombs. Indeed Allah is ever, over you, an Observer.

[10:23] ... O mankind, your injustice is only against yourselves, [being merely] the enjoyment of worldly life. Then to Us is your return, and We will inform you of what you used to do.

[31:33] O mankind, fear your Lord and fear a Day when no father will avail his son, nor will a son avail his father at all. Indeed, the promise of Allah is truth, so let not the worldly life delude you and be not deceived about Allah by the Deceiver.


Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

...The science of Islam did not happen in the desert. It was the great cities of Mesepotainia (Iraq) and Spain, I think, where it all happened...

I agree. My fault for not elaborating. The very first generations of Muslims concentrated on laying down the foundations of the new faith...etc. It was not easy.


Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

...Then this experimentation was stopped. It was stopped because the powers at the top felt threatened by any change. That is always the case change will cause the present rulers to have to be very clever to stay in power...

Hmmmm...I agree that 'politics and greed ruined the day'... coupled with the fact that too much power and wealth made some rulers succumb to worldly desires (women, partying...etc. same as today).

Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

... Truth is far more important than my ego.

I totally agree. Best thing you've ever said so far! Clap






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asep garutea View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garutea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2019 at 1:07am
Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

asep garutea,

Not sure what your point is there.

Mine is that I see the whole advancement of humanity/the Enlightement/science to be dependant upon the freeing of human though from the straight jacket of religion.

Tim the plumber.
What I mean is not religion informs humans instantly, but in the form like intuition, and humans with their knowledge can possibly investigate it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2019 at 1:22am
Originally posted by QasimAttari QasimAttari wrote:

I Think Its Not True


What is not true?

I assure you these are my thoughts on the matter. I may be wrong in those thoughts but they are absolutely my thoughts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2019 at 1:41am
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

asep garutea,

Not sure what your point is there.

Mine is that I see the whole advancement of humanity/the Enlightement/science to be dependant upon the freeing of human though from the straight jacket of religion.

Tim the plumber.
What I mean is not religion informs humans instantly, but in the form like intuition, and humans with their knowledge can possibly investigate it.


1, Thanks for the reply I am trying to get my head around it. One of the reasons I do this sort of thing is to encounter thinking that is different to mine and thus challenge my thinking. I personally like that. Most don't. If you don't like it though stay off the internet as this is the place of free ideas.

2, What is the it that humans are investigating?

3, The method of investigation will inevitably result  in different ideas, new ideas, coming along from individuals. That there will inevitably be stuff coming out of it that will threaten old established ideas. How do you square that with an unchanging finished word of God?
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