Infant male circumcision |
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Lira
Starter. Female Joined: 22 August 2019 Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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Posted: 22 August 2019 at 1:53am |
Sorry for such long post but this subject is very important to me.
I am a woman and I have converted to Islam
5 years ago. I felt that Islam was right for me because it has agreed with all the
fundamental believes and morals I already held and it has completed my overview
of the world by providing answers to all the question I had. I was always aware that Muslim men in their
majority are circumcised but I’ve never looked closely at the topic. And
whenever the topic would come up in a conversation most people would just
dismiss it as a ‘tiny snip of a little bit of extra, unneeded skin’. But when I actually looked into it, the
reality has absolutely horrified me! First of all, in infant circumcision up to
50% of all penile skin is being removed. And secondly, in majority infants the
foreskin is firmly attached to the glans (by the same type of membrane that
keeps your nails in place) and it only separates towards 3-5 years of age or even later.
So before the foreskin can be cut off it first has to be torn off the glans,
leaving the glans an effectively one big wound. I can't even begin to imagine how
excruciatingly painful that is to a baby. (And before anyone says that babies
don’t feel pain or feel it somehow different here’s link to the research by Oxford University, which proves that not only do babies feel pain
in the same way as adults do but they also feel it four times stronger!) http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2015-04-21-babies-feel-pain-adults
This procedure just seemed just so
unislamic to me. For me Islam is a religion of tolerance, love and compassion.
Even animals have to be slaughtered with minimal suffering for them but when it
comes to human babies it’s not only considered acceptable but even encouraged
to inflict lots of pain and suffering on helpless babies. It just didn’t make
any sense to me, I couldn’t believe that Islam that I know could require one to
do something like that. I decided to do more research and have found resources
that indeed agree with my view (that circumcision is not a part of a religion). https://www.quranicpath.com/misconceptions/circumcision.html http://quransmessage.com/articles/circumcision%20FM3.htm Now, whenever I try to discuss this subject
with anyone I just hit a brick wall. Nobody seems to question this practice. It’s
a bit of a herd mentality of ‘it’s always been done like this’ even when you
show them clear passages from the Quran which state that a men has been created
by Allah (swt) to perfection. "We have indeed created man in the best of
moulds" (95:4) "And when it is said to them, "Follow what Allah has revealed," they say, "Rather, we will follow that which we found our fathers doing." Even though their fathers understood nothing, nor were they guided?" (2:170)
I just feel that by carrying on with the
practice of infant circumcision we question Allah’s ability as a creator, as the
All-Knowing and All-Powerful.
I just wanted to know what your thoughts are on this. Have you ever questioned the necessity of the procedure? In the modern day and age there is really
no excuse for poor hygiene practices, so there’s no need to be circumcised to
remain clean. Also if you say you’re following practices of Prophet Ibrahim
(AS) – then he’s done it when he was an adult, not a helpless baby. And hadith on this matter is considered to be a weak one.
Is it time for us, as a Muslim community,
to start asking questions rather than blindly follow the traditions of the past? |
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AlkitabAdvocate
Newbie Male Joined: 28 June 2018 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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Good points. Its always good to ask questions.
A point to note is that Quran does not mention circumcision. Bible mentions circumcision. The followers of Bible don't practice it generally. Muslims practice it widely. Some Muslim communicates in Africa consider female circumcision as much religious as male circumcision.
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asep garutea
Senior Member Male Islam Joined: 18 January 2019 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 281 |
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Hi Lira, Not all women are afraid to see children who are circumcised, and maybe you are classified as women who are afraid. In this modern era many technologies are applied for circumcision, even in my country the practice of circumcision is sophisticated, today circumcised, the next day children can walk / run and do not feel sick. You see children who are circumcised as if there is no tolerance in religion, whereas in modern times such as today there are many sophisticated circumcision practices, today in circumcision, the next day children can walk or run. Many people who are circumcised are not a big problem. Allah Ta’ala Say: ثُمَّ �£َوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ �£َنِ اتَّبِعْ مِلَّةَإِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ "Then We reveal to you (Muhammad): "Follow the religion of Abraham, a Hanif" and not that he is one of those who associate partners with Allah." (An Nahl 16: 123) Circumcision was very closely related to one of the millah of Abraham. Allah Ta'ala Says: حَرَجٍ مِلَّةَ �£َبِيكُمْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ هُوَ سَمَّاكُمُ الْمُسْلِمِينَ مِنْ قَبْلُ وَفِي هَذَا لِيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْكُمْ وَتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ "Follow the religion of your parents Ibrahim. Allah has named you all Muslims long ago, and so it is in (the Qur'an), so that the Apostle bears witness to you and that you all be witnesses of all people." (Al Hajj 22: 78 ) In the Hadith explained: اخْتَتَنَ إِبْرَاهِيمُ عَلَيْهِ السَّلَام وَهُوَ ابْنُ ثَمَانِينَ سَنَةً بِالْقَدُومِ "Ibrahim ‘alaihissalam has circumcised with qadum (the name of a cutting tool) while he is 80 years old. ( HR. Al-Bukhary and Muslim ) The circumcision of the Prophet Ibrahim is also listed in the Old Testament: "You must have your foreskin tightened and it will be a sign of the covenant between me and you. " (Old Testament, Genesis 17: 11) "Then Abraham circumcised his son Isaac when he was eight days old, as God commanded him."(Genesis 21: 4) And circumcision is also the shari'ah of the Prophet Moses. Prophet Jesus also circumcised because he followed the shari'ah of the previous Prophets: "And when it was even eight days and he had to be circumcised, he was given the name of Jesus, which is the name that was called by an angel before he was conceived by his mother. (Luke 2: 21) This continued until the Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu 'alaihi wasallam and some of humanity now. Hopefully this explanation will add to your faith and devotion to Allah Ta'ala. |
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Lira
Starter. Female Joined: 22 August 2019 Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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I might've posted in a foreign language - would've been the same effect as to people trying to understand (or not even bothering) to what I am trying to say
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MIAW
Senior Member Islam Joined: 17 January 2018 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 492 |
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If you look closely at these websites, you will find that they are FAKE, anti-Islam, designed to attack Islam (using the Quran only, and in a way that THEY want you to understand it). Either with No Scholars/authors... or worse: Dodgy/unknown authors. (Also photos of babies with FAKE blood on them, amateur use of Photoshop...etc). The only thing that is worse than these websites... are (fake) people who use them to attack our religion. However, thanks for reminding us of the widespread issue of fake (anti-Islam) websites (pretending to be genuine Islamic websites) on the internet. I shall now be addressing this issue soon. Thanks. As for circumcision... use the search engine in 'trusted' Islamic websites, such as: Even non-muslim medical researchers are now turning to circumcision for treatment, and listing its benefits: Some of the listed benefits of circumcision:
Circumcision also makes it easier to keep the end of the penis clean. I don't know of anyone who has suffered or regretted circumcision. Yes I agree that parents find it hard to see their child in pain... but the child itself would thank you years later in the future for allowing this Islamic procedure (perhaps more than they would thank you for allowing painful vaccinations, jabs and other preventative medical procedures). On the other hand, they may never forgive you for not allowing it, and hence forcing them to do it at an older age. (remember: the earlier it's done the better). Most of the people that I spoke to... had it done without any anesthetics (in their younger years). Yes there will be some discomfort and swelling for a few days... but the benefits far outweigh this discomfort. |
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Lira
Starter. Female Joined: 22 August 2019 Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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That was pointless
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MIAW
Senior Member Islam Joined: 17 January 2018 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 492 |
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A word of advice: A GENUINE Muslim convert, would choose respectful words when talking about Islamic history, traditions, practices...etc, and certainly would not 'mock' and 'make fun' of the Will of God Subhanahu Wa Taala. |
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MIAW
Senior Member Islam Joined: 17 January 2018 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 492 |
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So now you are changing the subject from male to female circumcision. Are there no limits to your 'dissatisfaction' with Islam?? What exactly are your motives? For your information: Female circumcision is not obligatory (even according to Islamqa). It's a tradition that is only ever used by some remote (muslim and non-muslim) tribes nowadays. We do not usually discuss a subject that is a difference of opinion between scholars... especially if it is not even our original subject here. |
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