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A question from a Christian young lady

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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2018 at 1:58pm
December 25th a truely great man was born, the man who has done most to transform the world.

1642 Isaac Newton. Founder of physics and the idea that the world is not arbitary in opperation. Initiator of the currency syste of Britian which lead to the growth of the British economy and subsequent spread of it all over the world. Inventor of the reflecting telescope. Invented calculus maths, although in a way that nobody else could understand. Invented the cat flap.
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asep garut View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2018 at 7:24pm
As far as I know that December 25 is not the birthday of Prophet Isa (Jesus).

The December 25th celebration comes from the pagan celebrations of Ancient Rome, not Greece (Greek). Jerusalem and its surroundings before and after Prophet Isa (Jesus) was born, the region was under the control of the Roman Empire, and the Romans at that time embraced the pagan religion by worshiping the many gods.

At that time the beliefs of the Romans came from two sources:

1. The ancient Egyptian Osirian tradition.

2. Babylonian magics.

Both of them joined and are now known as Kabbalah. They have special days celebrated every year, including December 25 which is celebrated as the Birth Day of the child of the Sun God or Sol Invictus. Some experts think the term "Son of the Sun God" was also attributed to Namrudz, King of Babylon, who pursued the Prophet Abraham. They believe, this Sun God child was born on Sunday. Because of that they named Sunday as the Day of Sun, and they also worshiped on that day.

Paul II himself announced to his people that Jesus was not actually born on December 25. The date was chosen because it was a mid-winter celebration of the pagans, and many historians have stated that December 25 was actually the date of birth of many pagan gods such as Osiris, Attis, Tammuz, Adonis, Dionisius, and others.

Father Herbert W. Armstrong, a Christian historian who opposed many things about Christmas on December 25. The current belief is built on the basic framework of the Osirian renewal rite in ancient Egypt, including:

1.    Jesus is considered a child of God, this is the same as the belief of the Dionysius cult that had existed centuries before Jesus was born.

2.    Jesus was born in the cage, this is the same as the story of Horus who was born in the temples of Goddess Isis.

3.    Jesus turns water into wine in marriage in Qana, this is what Dionysius did.

4.    Jesus raised people from the dead and healed the blind, this is like God Aesculapius;

5.    Jesus is believed to have risen from the dead on a stone tomb, just like Mithra.

6.    Jesus held the last supper with bread and wine, the ritual of bread and wine was an important symbol in the Osirian tradition, and also almost all pagan rituals that worshiped the Dead God as did the devotees of Dionisius and Tammuz;

7.    Jesus calls himself a good shepherd, this mimics the role of Tammuz, who had been known as a Shepherd God for centuries before;

8.    The term "The Christ" at the beginning of Christianity was written "Christos", often confused with other words in Greek, Chrestos, which means kind or gentle. Some Greek-language gospel manuscripts from the earliest times even used the word Chrestos in a place that was supposed to be written with Christos. People at that time were familiar with Chrestos as one of the nicknames of Isis. An inscription at Delos that says Chreste Isis.

11. In the Gospel of John 12: 24, Jesus said, "If the grain of wheat did not fall to the ground and die, it would still be one seed, but if he died he would produce a lot of fruit." This parable and concept is clearly derived from the Osirian ritual concept;

12. In the Gospel of John 14: 2 Jesus said, "In the house of my father many dwellings." This really comes from Osiris and is copied from the Book of the Dead, the Book of the Dead of Ancient Egypt which is believed to be kept in the city of death, Hamunaptra.

Adam Clarke said:

“It was an ancient custom among Jews of those days to send out their sheep to the field and desert about the Passover (early spring), and bring them home at commencement of the first rain.” (Adam Clarke Commentary, Vol.5, page 370, New York).”

Adam Clarke also said:

“During the time they were out, the sepherds watch them night and day. As…the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November (begins sometime in october), we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole summer. And, as these sepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, our Lord was not born on the 25th of December, when no flock were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were still in the fields by night. On this very ground, the Nativity in December should be given up. The feeding of the flocks by night in the fields is a chronological fact…See the quotation from the Talmudists in Lightfoot.”

In some encyclopedias it says that Jesus was not born on December 25, Catholic Encyclopedia itself explicitly and openly acknowledges this fact.

1. Catholic Encyclopedia 1911 edition chapter "Christmas":

"Christmas is not the first church ceremony, but it is believed to be from Egypt, a celebration held by idol worshipers and fell in January, then made into the birthday of Jesus. In the chapter "Christmas Day": In the scriptures no one held a ceremony or held a celebration to celebrate the birthday of Jesus. "

2. Encyclopedia Britannica 1946 edition:

"Christmas is not a first-century church ceremony. Jesus Christ or his disciples never held it, and the Bible also never recommended it. This ceremony was taken by the church from pagan worshipers. "

3. Encyclopedia Americana 1944 edition:

"According to experts, in the early centuries, Christmas was never celebrated by Christians. In general, Christians only celebrate the day of death of prominent people, and never celebrate the birthday of the person ... The Christmas celebration which is considered to be the day of Jesus' birth began inaugurated in the 4th century AD. In the 5th century AD the Western Church ordered Christians to celebrate the birthday of Jesus, which was taken from the feast day of the Romans celebrating the "Birth of the Sun God". Because no one knows the birthday of Jesus.

4. New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Christmas:

"The customs of the pagan Brumalia and Saturnalia beliefs that have been very familiar in the Roman community were taken by Christians. This celebration is preserved by Christians with little change in spirit and character. Christian priests in the West and in the East opposed the celebration of the birth of Jesus who imitated this pagan religion. In addition, Mesopotamian Christians who accuse Western Christians (Roman Catholics) of adopting a model of worship to the Sun God. "

All of these are only Allah who is knowledgeable about the truth, humans are only told to look for those truths according to the thinking power or wits given by their Lord. Hopefully it will be a reflection for all of us.



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Al Masihi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Masihi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2018 at 1:52pm
I feel the need to address the many errors in your post, the sources of Roman beliefs came primarily from Ancient Greece and sometimes the Levant not Egypt or Babylonia. Christmas. Dionysus was the son of a women Zeus seduced and raped, and was a seperate god to Zeus, very different from the Christian story of one Person of the Godhead being born to Mary without sexual intercourse of any kind. Dionysus didn’t actuallg turn water into wine either, you may read the myths about him yourself. The story of Jesus raising the dead and healing the blind also happens to be in the Quran, so if we copied that from pagans then you did too. Mithras wasn’t killed and resurrected, you may read the myths about him yourself. Jesus is the good shepherd in the sense he cares for his followers, very different from being the literal god of shepherds and flocks like Tammuz. There are numerous differences between the birth of Horus and Jesus so I wouldn’t even dare to make a comparison.


The word christos means “ointment” or “salve.” That is the only use of the word in ancient Greek texts written before the Septuagint and the New Testament. You can see it, for example, in Aeschylus Prometheus Bound (480) and Euripides Hippolytus (516). In Greek, the word christos was a noun, not an adjective; the Jews were the first to use it as an adjective meaning “one who is anointed” (with an oil, ointment, or salve). The Christians were the first to apply it to a deity. In the Hebrew scriptures, the word meshiyach (“messiah”) means “one who is anointed.” Besides the common usage, the Jews also applied this title to the kings of Israel and Judah by virtue of the fact that they were anointed with oil as a part of the traditional coronation ceremony. You've confused this word with the word chrestos (spelled with a long e), which means “useful.” The Greeks applied this title to both men and gods in order to denote their good quality. There is no good evidence to substantiate this theory other than the fact that christos and chrestos look similar when written in our modern Latin alphabet. In fact, they are not etymologically related. Christian writings refer to Jesus as christos within 20 years of the crucifixion. The word chestos does not appear in the New Testament at all.


As for the rest of your claims of parallels between Jesus and pagan deities, your not giving sources at all, but making assumptions. Here’s also what the Catholic encyclopedia actually says:

https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/christmas

Also you quote commentary from Protestant scholars as if it’s the opinion of Christian scholars, you will also undoubtedly find commentary in the opposite direction, because commentaries are just scholarly opinions not facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peace maker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 October 2018 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:


A question from a Christian young lady: Why did this man leave Christianity (Catholicism) for Islam?

Here is the reply (in English):
Yusuf Estes no wonder there was no one who wanted to kill him for apostasy in his church or  his Father and Mother for leaving Christianity and still Yusuf boast about his conversion to Islam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2Acts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2018 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

As far as I know that December 25 is not the birthday of Prophet Isa (Jesus).

The December 25th celebration comes from the pagan celebrations of Ancient Rome, not Greece (Greek). Jerusalem and its surroundings before and after Prophet Isa (Jesus) was born, the region was under the control of the Roman Empire, and the Romans at that time embraced the pagan religion by worshiping the many gods.

At that time the beliefs of the Romans came from two sources:

1. The ancient Egyptian Osirian tradition.

2. Babylonian magics.

Both of them joined and are now known as Kabbalah. They have special days celebrated every year, including December 25 which is celebrated as the Birth Day of the child of the Sun God or Sol Invictus. Some experts think the term "Son of the Sun God" was also attributed to Namrudz, King of Babylon, who pursued the Prophet Abraham. They believe, this Sun God child was born on Sunday. Because of that they named Sunday as the Day of Sun, and they also worshiped on that day.

Paul II himself announced to his people that Jesus was not actually born on December 25. The date was chosen because it was a mid-winter celebration of the pagans, and many historians have stated that December 25 was actually the date of birth of many pagan gods such as Osiris, Attis, Tammuz, Adonis, Dionisius, and others.

Father Herbert W. Armstrong, a Christian historian who opposed many things about Christmas on December 25. The current belief is built on the basic framework of the Osirian renewal rite in ancient Egypt, including:

1.    Jesus is considered a child of God, this is the same as the belief of the Dionysius cult that had existed centuries before Jesus was born.

2.    Jesus was born in the cage, this is the same as the story of Horus who was born in the temples of Goddess Isis.

3.    Jesus turns water into wine in marriage in Qana, this is what Dionysius did.

4.    Jesus raised people from the dead and healed the blind, this is like God Aesculapius;

5.    Jesus is believed to have risen from the dead on a stone tomb, just like Mithra.

6.    Jesus held the last supper with bread and wine, the ritual of bread and wine was an important symbol in the Osirian tradition, and also almost all pagan rituals that worshiped the Dead God as did the devotees of Dionisius and Tammuz;

7.    Jesus calls himself a good shepherd, this mimics the role of Tammuz, who had been known as a Shepherd God for centuries before;

8.    The term "The Christ" at the beginning of Christianity was written "Christos", often confused with other words in Greek, Chrestos, which means kind or gentle. Some Greek-language gospel manuscripts from the earliest times even used the word Chrestos in a place that was supposed to be written with Christos. People at that time were familiar with Chrestos as one of the nicknames of Isis. An inscription at Delos that says Chreste Isis.

11. In the Gospel of John 12: 24, Jesus said, "If the grain of wheat did not fall to the ground and die, it would still be one seed, but if he died he would produce a lot of fruit." This parable and concept is clearly derived from the Osirian ritual concept;

12. In the Gospel of John 14: 2 Jesus said, "In the house of my father many dwellings." This really comes from Osiris and is copied from the Book of the Dead, the Book of the Dead of Ancient Egypt which is believed to be kept in the city of death, Hamunaptra.

Adam Clarke said:

“It was an ancient custom among Jews of those days to send out their sheep to the field and desert about the Passover (early spring), and bring them home at commencement of the first rain.” (Adam Clarke Commentary, Vol.5, page 370, New York).”

Adam Clarke also said:

“During the time they were out, the sepherds watch them night and day. As…the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November (begins sometime in october), we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole summer. And, as these sepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, our Lord was not born on the 25th of December, when no flock were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were still in the fields by night. On this very ground, the Nativity in December should be given up. The feeding of the flocks by night in the fields is a chronological fact…See the quotation from the Talmudists in Lightfoot.”

In some encyclopedias it says that Jesus was not born on December 25, Catholic Encyclopedia itself explicitly and openly acknowledges this fact.

1. Catholic Encyclopedia 1911 edition chapter "Christmas":

"Christmas is not the first church ceremony, but it is believed to be from Egypt, a celebration held by idol worshipers and fell in January, then made into the birthday of Jesus. In the chapter "Christmas Day": In the scriptures no one held a ceremony or held a celebration to celebrate the birthday of Jesus. "

2. Encyclopedia Britannica 1946 edition:

"Christmas is not a first-century church ceremony. Jesus Christ or his disciples never held it, and the Bible also never recommended it. This ceremony was taken by the church from pagan worshipers. "

3. Encyclopedia Americana 1944 edition:

"According to experts, in the early centuries, Christmas was never celebrated by Christians. In general, Christians only celebrate the day of death of prominent people, and never celebrate the birthday of the person ... The Christmas celebration which is considered to be the day of Jesus' birth began inaugurated in the 4th century AD. In the 5th century AD the Western Church ordered Christians to celebrate the birthday of Jesus, which was taken from the feast day of the Romans celebrating the "Birth of the Sun God". Because no one knows the birthday of Jesus.

4. New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Christmas:

"The customs of the pagan Brumalia and Saturnalia beliefs that have been very familiar in the Roman community were taken by Christians. This celebration is preserved by Christians with little change in spirit and character. Christian priests in the West and in the East opposed the celebration of the birth of Jesus who imitated this pagan religion. In addition, Mesopotamian Christians who accuse Western Christians (Roman Catholics) of adopting a model of worship to the Sun God. "

All of these are only Allah who is knowledgeable about the truth, humans are only told to look for those truths according to the thinking power or wits given by their Lord. Hopefully it will be a reflection for all of us.

The Muslim Haj festival is a pagan festival Mohamad adopted. 
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asep garutea View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garutea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 April 2019 at 1:27am
Hi 2Acts,
Muslim Hajj festival is not a pagan festival adopted by the Prophet Muhammad, but it is God's command that the Prophet Muhammad follow the religion of the monotheism (Tauheed) of the previous Prophets (he did not make his own rules), which included performing Hajj.
Here is the history:
When Prophet Adam had lived on earth, then he followed what the Angels did, namely Tawaf around the Kaaba, and Prophet Adam was the first man to perform the Hajj. The Kaaba was originally built by Angels, then Prophet Adam was ordered to rebuild the Kaaba, as the word of Allah:
" Verily, the first House of worship appointed for mankind was that at Bakkah (Makkah), full of blessing, and a guidance for Al-'Alamin (mankind and jinn)" - (Quran 3: 96).
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