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Is it good without religion? |
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nhuphuong422 
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Joined: 15 May 2018 Location: LONDON Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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 Topic: Is it good without religion?Posted: 18 May 2018 at 7:20pm |
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I apologize if this question has been exhausted, but as it is quite obvious, I'm new here. I've personally done some reading on Islamic ethics and have become fascinated by some of the different ancient schools of thought in early Islamic history. However, judging by the general consensus here and also via the Qur'an ethics, or the discipline to deal with what is good and bad are theologically based.
Unfortunately because Islamic ethics according to the early schools of thought were largely tied in with predestination, determinism etc it would make this a longer analysis of the issue. I'm not so much concerned with the issue of freewill per se but the issue of whether goodness of badness (or evil) are religiously determined. The phrase "Is there good without religion?" sounds misleading and it's not meant to be an attack on the Muslim religion (such as inviting the thought that there is good without religion) rather, provokes the ethical thought that one could be good without worshipping in a religion. Just reading some of the general threads here it appears that some Muslim members (which appears to be consistent with some of the ideologies of earlier Muslim thinkers) that goodness is largely defined religiously in connection with God's laws. If such is the case I have some general disagreement here, or I maybe misunderstanding something. But as far as my general opinion on the issue is concerned, I wholeheartedly believe all human beings are areligious when born, and therefore aren't exposed to the ethical implications of what it is to be a "good follower" or "bad follower." I believe some of our ethics, or knowledge of good and evil, comes from evironment, and that to be exposed to this would be a determinant of how we define good and bad. I also believe that some of our ideas of good and bad (notice I didn't say evil here) are biological. For instance, eating poison fruits which makes us physical ill will generate a disliking for that thing which we will effectively avoid when coming into contact with it. so the following question is: Am I not good if I'm not religious? I mean I'd like to think so....... I am a productive citizen in my country. I pay taxes, give to charity, help those in need and selflessly give back to those who are in need and even those who don't really deserve it. I also believe that if the time comes God forbid (no pun intended) I'd give my life to save others. but as you can see I've defined my own ethics with a certain level of altruism here, but this is my brief analysis of the issue but I'm curious as to whatothers here think.
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NABA
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Male Joined: 13 December 2012 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 867 |
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Posted: 20 May 2018 at 2:19am |
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Religion is a way of life,when you accept that you are religious means you testify that you are bound to commandments of Allah the one who knows everything, mentioned above your traits that you possess it's fine but you are bound to it only because you like it only because conditions are allowing you to,what if you don't have money to buy bread???you haven't experience fatal hunger or any adversity,what is the guarantee that you would be same under adverse,there are so many people like you who are good like you but they are not good to parents they left parents to old house when old but Allah says lower your shoulder, don't backfire at them,u should not say even ooff,be good to them(ch 17 v 23-24),plus many people are good but considers sex before marriage to be fine or one night stand but Allah says don't even go close to adultery or fornication plus Allah says sex between husband and wife only is acceptable to Allah,in fact if we had to marry a girl we had to give marital gift according to her demand as well as we had to take care of her and her needs till death plus we can't be rude to her,there are many examples that we need religion,in other words religion is instruction manual by Allah to lead life, another example Allah forbids pork and you know consuming pork is harmful.
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NABA
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Posted: 20 May 2018 at 2:22am |
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You cannot form your own ethics because you and I and everybody have limited wisdom, that's why we had to be obedient to Allah because he is one he is eternal he is neither born nor give birth there is nothing like him.
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Tim the plumber
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Male Joined: 30 September 2014 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 944 |
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Posted: 20 May 2018 at 4:31am |
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If we manage to do a good job of forming a set of ethical rules and guidelines without the use of a higher power then that would make your statement false. I think we have managed to do that.
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Al Masihi
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Posted: 20 May 2018 at 1:10pm |
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Religion is what guides mankind and gives them morals, this is what I as a Christian believe my religion gives me as you as a Muslim believe your religion gives you.
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MIAW
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Islam Joined: 17 January 2018 Location: UK Status: Online Points: 492 |
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Posted: 21 May 2018 at 5:42am |
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Hi nhuphuong422, My wish is that every human was as good as possible in every sense... but with a small additional 'extra': with a 'channeled intention' to please God... for good deeds and actions count more if they were coupled with good intentions. Welcome!... I'll try to help you by giving you my Islamic point of view. good and bad are theologically based? Answer: No. goodness of badness (or evil) are religiously determined? Answer: Not necessarily. "Is there good without religion?" Answer: Yes of course. Am I not good if I'm not religious? Answer: -People can be religious and good: Here, religion can enhance their character. -People can be religious and not good: Here, some people can misunderstand or misinterpret religion. (They will have to answer for their actions). -People can be not religious and good: out of purely good human nature/character. -People can be not religious and not good: Lost, relying purely on a 'damaged' human nature/character. There you are: 'simple' questions, with 'simple' answers. (no disrespect intended). HOWEVER... (and it's a big 'HOWEVER'!)... Please forgive me for saying this but... your question is the wrong one... it's too 'shallow'... it does not go 'deep' enough... What you should be asking is this: If I am a good person (to myself and others), who does all the good things in life, a good citizen (and all the good things you mentioned towards the end of your post)... What benefit is that to me? Answer: Benefits in this life: You will enjoy seeing the effect of your 'goodness' on others, your friends and neighbors will be very happy with you, your country (and yourself) will prosper because of your good citizenship and actions, You will achieve inner peace knowing that you have made a change to worthy causes and individuals... etc... But this (short) life of ours is not the only one... We will all be raised again for a (much) longer life that lasts... forever (eternally)... Benefits in the next life: NONE!... unless you believe in The Supreme Host (The One and Only God our Creator Who Has no Wife, Son or Partner) Whom we are all going to be brought to account in front of... After all: How can one expect to gain any good favors with a Host (for being good themselves), when they don't even believe in that Host, they don't follow His Instructions, they associate partners to Him, they 'disbelieve' in His Power, Knowledge, Prophets and Messengers, Message and Guidance...etc, in fact (for some people) His very Existence. Here is what Islamic scholars say (Based on the Qur'an): Question: Will the good deeds and actions of a non-Muslim be accepted by God (Allah SWT) in the hereafter? Answer: ...As regards the actions of non-Muslims, Allaah clarified to us in many verses that their actions are void. Allaah Says (which means): {And what prevents their contributions from being accepted from them but that they have disbelieved in Allaah and in His Messenger.}[Quran 9:54]. Allaah further Says (which means): {And whoever denies the faith — his work has become worthless, and in the Hereafter, he will be among the losers.}[Quran 5:5]. Allaah also Says (which means): {And We will approach [i.e. regard] what they have done of deeds and make them as dust dispersed.}[Quran 25:23]. In another verse, Allaah Says (which means): {As for those who disbelieve, their deeds are like a mirage in a desert. The thirsty one thinks it to be water, until he comes up to it, he finds it nothing but finds Allaah before him, and He will pay him in full his due; and Allah is swift in account.}[Quran 24:39]. Another verse reads: {The example of those who disbelieve in their Lord is [that] their deeds are like ashes which the wind blows forcefully on a stormy day; they are unable [to keep] from what they earned a [single] thing.}[Quran 14:18]. All the above are evidences from the Quran, and it is Allaah Who accepts the deeds and it is He Who gives a recompense for them. So, it would be very strange for a person to disbelieve in Allaah and associate with Him others in worship, for which He had sent no authority, and then expect from Him the best recompense. Therefore, the deeds of a non-Muslim are not accepted from him by Allaah on the Day of Judgement, but Allaah does not wrong anyone. The non-Muslim will be rewarded for his good deeds. The Prophet What a non-Muslim should do is embrace Islam, the true religion which is the religion of all the Prophets and Messengers. Allaah Says (which means): {So believe in Allaah and His Messengers. And if you believe and fear Allaah, then for you there is a great reward.}[Quran 3:179]. Allaah further Says (which means): {O mankind! Verily, there has come to you the Messenger (Muhammad Another Question: Will good deeds avail a person anything if he dies as a kaafir?When a non-muslim, leads the life in this world not committing any major sins, doing all good deeds as he can, and lives as a very good human-being and dies as a non-muslim, will he be going to heaven because of good deeds or will be led into hell since he was not a muslim and (knowingly or unknowingly)not accepted the oneness of Allah? Answer: Praise be to Allaah. If a person dies following a religion other than Islam, then Paradise will be forbidden for him, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allâh, then Allâh has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode” [al-Maa’idah 5:72] Good deeds done by a person whilst he is a kaafir will not benefit him in the Hereafter at all, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meanings): “And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85] “And We shall turn to whatever deeds they (disbelievers, polytheists, sinners) did, and We shall make such deeds as scattered floating particles of dust” [al-Furqaan 25:23] “Those who deny Our Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and the Meeting in the Hereafter (Day of Resurrection,), vain are their deeds. Are they requited with anything except what they used to do?” [al-A’raaf 7:147] ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) asked the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) a question similar to that asked here. She (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: “O Messenger of Allaah, during the Jaahiliyyah Ibn Jud’aan used to uphold the ties of kinship and feed the poor. Will that be of any avail to him?” He said, “No, that will not be of any avail to him, because he never said ‘O Lord, forgive me my sins on the Day of Judgement.’” (Narrated by Imaam Muslim – may Allaah have mercy on him) in his Saheeh, 214). But if the kaafir never heard about Islam and Da’wah never reached him, then Allaah will test him on the Day of Resurrection (please see Question #1244). And Allaah knows best. Therefore to sum up: Yes you can be good and reap the benefits and rewards of your 'goodness' without being religious... but only in this life. However, In order to reap and enjoy the rewards and benefit in the (much more important and longer) next life, then there are rules to follow and conditions to fulfill... which is what many of us are very busy trying to do. I hope that helped. |
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airmano
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Joined: 31 March 2014 Status: Offline Points: 884 |
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Posted: 21 May 2018 at 11:41am |
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@Miaw
It seems that you adapt your logic to the people you are talking to. In this post we discussed:
The more tolerant stance you took a week ago has apparently evaporated and you are now back in roasting mode. BTW: May be you missed it but you never came up with a reply to this related post. Airmano
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The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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MIAW
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Islam Joined: 17 January 2018 Location: UK Status: Online Points: 492 |
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Posted: 01 June 2018 at 5:37pm |
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@Airmano If you look again closely, you will find no contradictions in my posts. That is because I always (try to) adhere strictly to the following rule: In Islam, when we talk about Paradise and Hell,
we are not allowed to point at a particular person and say: “You are going to
Hell” or “You are going to Paradise”. It belongs to Allah SWT Alone to Say that
to any person that He Wishes. […and in some instances: Prophet Muhammad PBUH
when he was told by Allah about certain particular people…]. Therefore we are
strictly forbidden to decide/announce that someone in particular is going to
end up in Paradise or in Hell… unless we have clear textual evidence. However, I can talk to you about ‘Actions, Deeds,
Beliefs and Convictions’ that can lead people to Hell or to Paradise… because
we have very clear evidence in the Qur’an and Sunnah. Now if you look at my post above, as well as at
previous posts, you will find that I am ‘careful’ about this point. Of course,
please correct me if I have broken this rule anywhere… I shall be glad to
rectify. This is not a ‘joke’. It’s a very serious
subject. The Qur’an is different from other ‘Scriptures’, because (in it) Allah
Has given a few descriptions and scenarios of Paradise and Hell… and when I am reading the Qur’an, I often come across passages that make me wish I could do
something to ‘help’ as many people in this world as possible to ‘save’
themselves from Hell and ‘earn’ Paradise (and Please don’t think from this that
I have ‘arrogantly’ guaranteed myself a place in Paradise… for no one knows but
Allah SWT… but I am working on it as hard as I can…). The Promise of Paradise and the Threat of
Hellfire concerns all of us… it all depends on our Actions, Deeds and Beliefs.
If I decide to disbelieve in God (Allah) and ignore His Commands and Instructions,
then I am putting myself in ‘Harm’s Way’. To Sum up: in both posts, my position is constant
and coherent. Now… back to this (What you would call ‘Allah’s
Cruelty’):
You can
not escape this logic: The Quran is full of announcements on how disbelievers
will be treated ( to me it even seems the central theme). So if you
accept the Quran as being Gods word you also accept that Allah is utterly
cruel. https://www.whyislam.org/allah/god/names-and-attributes-of-allah/ However... [Qur'an 5:98]
These are (some of) the Attributes of Allah SWT. Which of them you will meet on the Day of Judgement... is entirely up to you (oh no!... back to 'free will' again!). |
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NABA wrote:
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