A quick question about the Evidence |
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2Acts
Senior Member Joined: 22 March 2015 Status: Offline Points: 143 |
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Hello MIAW whether the Sanaa
manuscript is the oldest or one of the oldest is not the point. Dated between
578 CE and 669 CE it is comparable to the Birmingham Quran which is dated
between 568 and 645 CE. The Birmingham Quran however is only two pages while
the Sanaa Quran has eighty pages. The real point however is that it is older
than Uthmans recension. In terms of its
reliability being related to who wrote it. I don’t see how this is relevant
because the Quran is supposed to be a miracle of God recited through the angel
Gabriel. as the Quran states about it self - …”this is a Glorious Quran (inscribed) in a Tablet Preserved. S85:
21:22 The manuscript is a
palimpsest. This means it is written on parchment and comprises two layers of
text. The upper text largely conforms to the standard 'Uthmanic' Quran in text
and in the standard order of suras; whereas the lower text contains many
variations from the standard text, and the sequence of its suras corresponds to
no known quranic order. So because the Quran should be preserved in heaven then
there should be absolutely no variances. Because of Uthman it
is impossible for Muslims to know what the Qur’an of Muhammad actually said.
Hafiz do not know if they are memorising the correct Quran or not. It does not make
sense to say burning all the copies that were the same was a favour. If they were
all the same then why the need to burn them ? What was Uthman
afraid of when he burnt the first copies of the Quran? Because of the differences
in the way the Qur'an was being memorized and recited after Muhammad's death and
because of the political problems at the time Uthman had to silence all his
opponents by destroying all Qurans that were different. |
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2Acts
Senior Member Joined: 22 March 2015 Status: Offline Points: 143 |
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The Birmingham and Sanaa Qurans are roughly the same age but
the Birmingham one however is only two
pages while the Sanaa Quran has eighty eight pages. |
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MIAW
Senior Member Islam Joined: 17 January 2018 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 492 |
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Hi 2Acts, Don't you ever get dizzy?... you go round and round in circles... I have answered all your questions in the previous post.
It is this kind of attitude that has made previous books (e.g. Bible ...etc) lose their reliability. A written copy of the Qur'an was ALLEGEDLY discovered in an attic here or in a cellar there... Big Deal! Opponents of Islam love to use these 'findings' because it serves their purpose (of attacking the integrity and reliability of Islam)... but when you ask them: Who wrote it? and When exactly?... they say: it's irrelevant. Thanks to Uthman RA burning all other copies... Any copy found anywhere cannot possibly be from the Prophet's time...
Because of Uthman RA it is very easy for Muslims to know what the Qur’an of Muhammad actually said.
The reason was explained above in my previous post, and I don't want to copy and paste... so I just refer you back to it.
I have answered it in my previous post... but: He knew that opponents of Islam would one day say what you are saying... and some weak-minded Muslims (who don't know their religion well) might fall for it and believe them. There's only ONE Qur'an. It's the Qur'an that I know... along with billions of other Muslims from around the world... and (more importantly) from throughout history all the way to Revelation. Can you say the same about your bible? |
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2Acts
Senior Member Joined: 22 March 2015 Status: Offline Points: 143 |
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Hello MIAW. The reason we go in
circles is because your answers are not good enough. And the reason I say it is not relevant who wrote
the Sanaa Quran is because Muslims believe it was a direct recitation from
Allah, Gabriel and Mohamad. Therefore because it is such a miracle it is
irrelevant who wrote the Sanaa copy. Because it is a miracle there should be no
differences. It does not make
sense for you to say thanks to Uthman burning all other copies that any copy
found anywhere cannot possibly be from the Prophet's time because you do not
have any early copies to compare. You cannot say there
is only ONE Quran. The Sanaa Quran proves there was more than one, before
Uthman burnt them. Yes I can say the Bible is extremely reliable. There are more than 24,000 partial and complete manuscript copies of the New Testament and 86,000 quotations from the early church fathers and several thousand Lectionaries (church-service books containing Scripture quotations used in the early centuries of Christianity). The new testament is the most validated of all ancient writings. More ancient copies exist than any other ancient writing, for example the Roman history of Julius Caesar, and others. Plus these copies cover a huge and wide geographic area that prevents them from being gathered together and falsified. |
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asep garut
Senior Member Joined: 02 November 2017 Status: Offline Points: 366 |
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I try to add my opinion here regarding the existence of the Sanaa Quran. Previously I wanted to ask and hopefully someone could answer my questions: 1. 1. How many verses are there in the Sanaa Quran? (page unnecessary) 2. 2. How many words of Fawatihussuwar letters in such Quran? (Fawatihussuwar is a collection of Al-Quran letters that started a surah) 3. How many words of “ الله “ (Allah) in such Quran ? This amount will determine the authenticity of the Qur'an since the Prophet Muhammad is still alive until now that the contents of the Quran are all still maintained authenticity. Sorry, not all Muslims know the secret behind the number of numbers and letters in the Quran except those who have been given "Al Hikmah" by Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala. “He grants Hikmah to whom He pleases, and he, to whom Hikmah is granted, is indeed granted abundant good. But none remember (will receive admonition) except men of understanding.” (Quran 2:269) Today, there are thousands of Muslims who understand the Quran and maybe more, and it has been handed down since the Prophet Muhammad is still alive, and they are included in the Quran. “Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Quran, and surely, We will guard it (from corruption).” (Quran 15:9) We (in blue) show that it is Allah and the Angel Gabriel, while We (in green) shows that it is Allah, the Angel Gabriel, and those who are given "Hikmah" (wisdom) by Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala. |
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MIAW
Senior Member Islam Joined: 17 January 2018 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 492 |
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Of course, my answers are not good enough to YOU... because you want me to agree with what you are saying and you only accept your own opinions as correct! However, look at what you are saying: You want us to believe that while our Prophet PBUH was reciting what had just been revealed to him, each of his companions/scribes somehow wrote something different! And that our Prophet allowed that to happen! Our Prophet's companions were extremely trustworthy... it is thanks to Allah SWT, and then to them that Islam and the Qur'an have stood the test of time and the constant and relentless adverse attempts of opponents of the Truth throughout the last 15 centuries. Add to that: the benefit of the fact that the Qur'an was written during our Prophet's lifetime and under his supervision... unlike any previous revelations. Anyone can produce a fake Qur'an or Hadith... this has been happening since day one, and it is still happening today... but will this affect me or the billions of Muslims who are alert and know their religion well? NO! ... It has worked with other religions before us and corrupted them, but it won't work with us. You hang on to your copies of the Qur'an... that you keep discovering in attics and cellars here and there and everywhere... and we'll hang on to ours (from trustworthy sources that we know well)... thank you. |
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2Acts
Senior Member Joined: 22 March 2015 Status: Offline Points: 143 |
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Hello MIAW. Thank you for your reply. When Muhammad was reciting the Quran people remembered not by writing but memory. At times the odd verse got written on different objects (leather, bone, stones etc) to aid the memorising. After Muhammad's death differences of opinion arose over what Mohamad originally recited and arguments arose over the proper transmission of what was written and differences in the Quran started to emerge. |
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asep garutea
Senior Member Male Islam Joined: 18 January 2019 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 281 |
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Hi 2Acts, suppose if all the holy books that exist today are doubtful about their authenticity.
Then try to read all the holy books on the surface of the earth one by one carefully, and after that you think about which books are more reasonable and provide much information for the human race such as things that will happen in the future, about intuition in the ever expanding field of human science etc. Humans who are adults are usually instincts and their minds are always looking for the best. So, we must remember that among the good, there must be the best. And Insha Allah, after you read all that books, you will find the best one by yourself. |
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