A quick question about the Evidence |
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2Acts
Senior Member Joined: 22 March 2015 Status: Offline Points: 143 |
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The oldest Quran manuscript in existence found in Sanaa in the 1970s proves it varies considerably with the modern orthodox Quran used today. The Quran is unreliable. |
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2Acts
Senior Member Joined: 22 March 2015 Status: Offline Points: 143 |
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Hello MIAW Muslims are often trying to prove other religions as wrong. Does that make them "Trolls" ? This is an inter faith forum. That means there will be disagreements about truth. Muslims should not be too sensitive if "trolls" offend them. As long as it is not personal. This is what happens with interfaith forums. If Muslims do not like being contradicted or challenged then they should not have inter faith forums on their web sites. Peace to you.
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qwertygun
Starter. Joined: 13 June 2018 Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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Hi, some of my Christians have asked me the same question previously and left me pondering hard on this issue. And I came across a lot of explanations from Ustaz. Some of them are too long and confusing I might say. I became more confused when some ustaz quote this and that verses from bible which don't make sense because you can't quote from unreliable (corrupt) sources. It is an irony that you accuse XXX document as corrupt, but at the same time, quoting as if it is a fact. Thus I decided to make a research on this issue with open and neutral point of view (seeking opinion from Christians as well). After reading and watching a lot of explanations from both sides, I realized that this question can actually be addressed without the need to examine the whole Bible and Quran, and can be explained in respectful and logical ways. And this hadith, really helped me to understand / define 'corrupt' is Islamic point of view.
Not wanting my knowledge to disappear, I made this video and I hope it may help you. |
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DavidC
Senior Member Male Christian Joined: 20 September 2001 Location: Florida USA Status: Offline Points: 2474 |
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Well done, Qwertygun. I could quibble about a few things, but you still get an "A"
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Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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Faaiz Rosli
Newbie Male Joined: 19 May 2018 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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how about the one in Birmingham University?
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MIAW
Senior Member Islam Joined: 17 January 2018 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 492 |
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Hi 2Acts, Consider these points: 1) Wikipedia and other sources say that the Sanaa manuscript is one of the oldest Quranic texts available today. However you have decided to keep telling us that it is the oldest. Please yourself! 2) To judge the reliability of the Qur'an using the Sanaa manuscript is naive at best, because nowhere does it ever say who wrote it, when or where was it written. (the carbon dating is that of the parchment, not the writing). 3) Most importantly: The only reliable Qur'an is the one committed to the memory of Hundreds of Millions of Muslims from across the world and throughout history. Muslims have always learnt the Qur'an 'by heart'... from day one. and that is how it is preserved. You might find 2 Muslims who speak different languages, adhere to different cultures, originate from different backgrounds or even live at different times in history...etc, but the absolute certainty is: they know and read the same Qur'an... exactly the same. I would like to give you another bit of information for free if that's ok: from your previous posts, you seem to have an issue with Uthman RA burning all copies of the Qur'an and keeping just one. Uthman RA did 2Acts (No Pun Intended!) that are very relevant here: He collected the Qur'an in one Book, and then ordered the burning of all other copies available at the time. For your info: This is one of the greatest favours that Uthman RA did for all Muslims throughout history. We will never be grateful enough to him for this act. Why is that?... The reason for Uthman RA ordering the burning of other copies is not because they were different... it is because they were the same! How is that?... Some of the companions RA who were present at the very time of revelation of the Qur'an, wrote their own record of the Qur'an in order to keep it at home (as their own copy)... however THEY only wrote down what THEY witnessed as it was revealed (THEY were not present at the time of EVERY revelation)... so when Uthman RA ordered the (most senior) scribes/companions to collect, check and write ONE COPY of the COMPLETE Qur'an, he then ordered all other copies to be destroyed by burning in order to eliminate all confusion. Reason: It is as if he knew that if other copies were kept in existence, there would be opponents of Islam (many centuries later) saying: "the copy discovered in an attic in Sanaa (or any other copy discovered anywhere... written by any Tom, Dick or Harry at any point in history) must have been written by a companion of Prophet Muhammad upon hearing it directly from the Prophet". [i.e. fake copies would be written left right and centre, and falsely attributed to our Prophet's companions.] So you see... by doing that act, Uthman RA 'silenced' every opponent of Islam for good. |
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airmano
Senior Member Joined: 31 March 2014 Status: Offline Points: 884 |
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Miaw
And this is what it is really all about. Airmano
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The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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MIAW
Senior Member Islam Joined: 17 January 2018 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 492 |
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@airmano This may be hard to understand, or in your case 'to believe', but... Silencing opponents in this case is a 'defensive' move. History teaches us that 'Truth' has always had 'opponents' (usually people whose lifestyle and agenda are 'not suited' to this truth). Just look at the Prophets throughout history: they were exiled, humiliated, beaten up, fought against, accused, killed...etc. Reason: Because they were in possession of something very 'dangerous'... 'The message of Truth' from their Lord Allah (God)! |
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