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A quick question about the Evidence
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2Acts View Drop Down
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Points: 143 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2Acts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2018 at 10:49pm

The oldest Quran manuscript in existence found in Sanaa in the 1970s proves it varies considerably with the modern orthodox Quran used today. The Quran is unreliable.

 
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2Acts View Drop Down
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Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:

Originally posted by phanhuyen345 phanhuyen345 wrote:

For years and years, I have heard claims from Islam that the Bible is corrupted. 

NOT ONCE have I seen one shred of evidence to persuade me of this claim. 

Who can dispel my view that corruption claims are merely Islam's way of trying to prove, conveniently for themselves, that the Quran harmonizes with the Bible when it obviously doesn't.

Islam (and the Qur'an in particular) does not 'try to prove' anything against other faiths and religions... it rather gives us guidance on how to submit to the Will of God our Creator and the Creator of everything seen or unseen... but it also informs us about what has happened in the past (i.e. how other nations and individuals behaved) and what will be in the future (i.e consequences and implications in this life and after death). Whether you choose to believe it or not is entirely your choice.
 

We are not here to prove anything against the Bible. We are here to try and explain Islam to those who wish to find out about it.

Sometimes we respond to hostile 'trolls' who come on here to attack our religion and try to demean our symbols (Allah SWT, Prophet Muhammad PBUH, The Qur'an... etc). However, make no mistake: We respect other people's faiths and convictions.

We know very well that the 'trolls' do not represent the majority out there... but they come on here with an 'attitude' and they must be answered somehow. 

We welcome people who come on here with 'genuine' questions about Islam (and there are so many of them), and I am sure most of us will try to help those people find the right answers.

Different people have different convictions, and each person believes that they have the 'Truth'. We appreciate that fact. We obviously believe in what God (Allah SWT) Has Told us in the Qur'an (because He was there, Witnessing everything that other nations did in the past)... but that does not make people of other faiths 'our enemies'. We believe that God Has Shown us the right path to follow, and it will be clear who was right and who was wrong... on the Day of Judgement.

I personally will not go to other people's websites and start provoking animosity or hostility with 'loaded questions'... and I expect the same from others here. However there are some people who are already  driven by 'Media-injected hatred' by the time they get here. It's sad.

To sum it up: If you want to know what the Qur'an says about the current bible, then some of us can point you to the relevant verses (they are there for everyone to see and read)... but if you then want evidence and proofs, then you'll have to 'Google it' and pray that God Will Guide you towards the Truth... the whole truth... and nothing but the truth.
Hello MIAW
Muslims are often trying to prove other religions as wrong. Does that make them "Trolls" ? This is an inter faith forum. That means there will be disagreements about truth. Muslims should not be too sensitive if "trolls" offend them. As long as it is not personal. This is what happens with interfaith forums. If Muslims do not like being contradicted or challenged then they should not have inter faith forums on their web sites.
Peace to you.
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qwertygun View Drop Down
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Points: 1 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qwertygun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2018 at 11:23pm
Hi, some of my Christians have asked me the same question previously and left me pondering hard on this issue.

And I came across a lot of explanations from Ustaz. Some of them are too long and confusing I might say.

I became more confused when some ustaz quote this and that verses from bible which don't make sense because you can't quote from unreliable (corrupt) sources. It is an irony that you accuse XXX document as corrupt, but at the same time, quoting as if it is a fact.


Thus I decided to make a research on this issue with open and neutral point of view (seeking opinion from Christians as well).

After reading and watching a lot of explanations from both sides, I realized that this question can actually be addressed without the need to examine the whole Bible and Quran, and can be explained in respectful and logical ways.

And this hadith, really helped me to understand / define 'corrupt' is Islamic point of view.

Narrated Abu Huraira: "The people of the Book used to read the Torah in Hebrew and then explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. Allah's Apostle said (to the Muslims). 'Do not believe the people of the Book, nor disbelieve them, but say, 'We believe in Allah and whatever is revealed to us, and whatever is revealed to you.” (Sunnah - Translation of Sahih Al- Bukhari)


Not wanting my knowledge to disappear, I made this video and I hope it may help you.
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DavidC View Drop Down
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Points: 2474 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2018 at 7:37pm
Well done, Qwertygun. I could quibble about a few things, but you still get an "A"
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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Faaiz Rosli View Drop Down
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Points: 24 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Faaiz Rosli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2018 at 8:35pm
how about the one in Birmingham University?
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MIAW View Drop Down
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Points: 492 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MIAW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2018 at 3:55am
Originally posted by 2Acts 2Acts wrote:

The oldest Quran manuscript in existence found in Sanaa in the 1970s proves it varies considerably with the modern orthodox Quran used today. The Quran is unreliable.

 
Hi 2Acts,

Consider these points:

1) Wikipedia and other sources say that the Sanaa manuscript is one of the oldest Quranic texts available today. However you have decided to keep telling us that it is the oldest. Please yourself!

2) To judge the reliability of the Qur'an using the Sanaa manuscript is naive at best, because nowhere does it ever say who wrote it, when or where was it written. (the carbon dating is that of the parchment, not the writing).

3) Most importantly: The only reliable Qur'an is the one committed to the memory of Hundreds of Millions of Muslims from across the world and throughout history. Muslims have always learnt the Qur'an 'by heart'... from day one. and that is how it is preserved. You might find 2 Muslims who speak different languages, adhere to different cultures, originate from different backgrounds or even live at different times in history...etc, but the absolute certainty is: they know and read the same Qur'an... exactly the same.

I would like to give you another bit of information for free if that's ok:

from your previous posts, you seem to have an issue with Uthman RA burning all copies of the Qur'an and keeping just one.

Uthman RA did 2Acts (No Pun Intended!Smile) that are very relevant here: He collected the Qur'an in one Book, and then ordered the burning of all other copies available at the time.

For your info: This is one of the greatest favours that Uthman RA did for all Muslims throughout history. We will never be grateful enough to him for this act. Why is that?...

The reason for Uthman RA ordering the burning of other copies is not because they were different... it is because they were the same!

How is that?... 

Some of the companions RA who were present at the very time of revelation of the Qur'an, wrote their own record of the Qur'an in order to keep it at home (as their own copy)... however THEY only wrote down what THEY witnessed as it was revealed (THEY were not present at the time of EVERY revelation)... so when Uthman RA ordered the (most senior) scribes/companions to collect, check and write ONE COPY of the COMPLETE Qur'an, he then ordered all other copies to be destroyed by burning in order to eliminate all confusion. Reason: It is as if he knew that if other copies were kept in existence, there would be opponents of Islam (many centuries later) saying: "the copy discovered in an attic in Sanaa (or any other copy discovered anywhere... written by any Tom, Dick or Harry at any point in history) must have been written by a companion of Prophet Muhammad upon hearing it directly from the Prophet". [i.e. fake copies would be written left right and centre, and falsely attributed to our Prophet's companions.]

So you see... by doing that act, Uthman RA 'silenced' every opponent of Islam for good.
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airmano View Drop Down
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Points: 884 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2018 at 5:00am
Miaw
Quote So you see... by doing that act, Uthman RA 'silenced' every opponent of Islam till the end of time.

And this is what it is really all about.



Airmano
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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MIAW View Drop Down
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Points: 492 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MIAW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 June 2018 at 6:13am
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

Miaw
Quote So you see... by doing that act, Uthman RA 'silenced' every opponent of Islam till the end of time.

And this is what it is really all about.

Airmano

@airmano

This may be hard to understand, or in your case 'to believe', but...

Silencing opponents in this case is a 'defensive' move.



History teaches us that 'Truth' has always had 'opponents' (usually people whose lifestyle and agenda are 'not suited' to this truth).

Just look at the Prophets throughout history: they were exiled, humiliated, beaten up, fought against, accused, killed...etc. Reason: Because they were in possession of something very 'dangerous'... 'The message of Truth' from their Lord Allah (God)!
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