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Saudi Arabia to open Christian Churches

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DavidC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 May 2018 at 7:01pm
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Al Masihi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Masihi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2018 at 6:43am
No compulsion in religion was abrogated by the verse of 9:5, when saudi let’s people choose their own religion not just building churches then I’ll say they have no compulsion in religion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2018 at 4:36am
Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

No compulsion in religion was abrogated by the verse of 9:5, when saudi let’s people choose their own religion not just building churches then I’ll say they have no compulsion in religion.

Let us rejoice in progress. SA moving away from Salafism as a means of govenmental control is a huge improvement and a sign of God's activity in the world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Masihi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2018 at 5:02am
A word of advice, a leopard never changed its spots.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Niblo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2018 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

.......


You write:

‘No compulsion in religion was abrogated by the verse of 9:5’

This claim is made repeatedly by Muslim extremists; by islamophobes; and by certain non-Muslim academics.

The claim is utter nonsense. Here’s the verse:

‘When the (four) forbidden months are over, wherever you encounter the idolaters, kill them, seize them, besiege them, wait for them at every lookout post; but if they turn (to Allāh), maintain the prayer, and pay the prescribed alms, let them go on their way, for Allāh is most forgiving and merciful.’ (Al-Tawba).

The context is a state of war occasioned by those polytheists who broke their treaty with the Muslims.

In what way could this verse abrogate the following?

‘There is no compulsion in religion (lā ikrāha fī’l-dīn): true guidance has become distinct from error, so whoever rejects false gods and believes in Allāh has grasped the firmest hand-hold, one that will never break. Allāh is all hearing and all knowing. Allāh is the ally of those who believe: He brings them out of the depths of darkness and into the light. As for the disbelievers, their allies are false gods who take them from the light into the depths of darkness, they are the inhabitants of the Fire, and there they will remain.’ (Al-Baqara: 256-257).

Muhammad Abdel Haleem writes:

‘This verse begins with the phrase lā ikrāha fī’l-dīn (there is no compulsion in religion). It is introduced by ‘lā’, the particle of absolute negation in Arabic, which negates absolutely the notion of compulsion in religion. Religion in the Qur’an is based on choice, and true choice is based on knowledge and making matters clear for people to choose. The rest of the ‘there is no compulsion in religion’ verse gives reasons justifying and explaining this statement. The structure of the sentence includes fasl (removing the conjunction: in this case ‘because’). This is a well-known convention in the Arabic language used to show concisely that what follows the fasl is the reason for what comes before it; the structure is also quite obvious in the English rendition above. It is inconceivable that the Qur’an would abrogate any of this, including, ‘true guidance has become distinct from error. God is all-hearing and all-knowing’ Neither does it make sense linguistically to abrogate something and leave its reasons operative.’ (‘Exploring the Qur'an: Context and Impact’).

Haleem reminds us of Al-Baqara 255:

‘Allāh: there is no god but Him, the Ever Living, the Ever Watchful. Neither slumber nor sleep overtakes Him. All that is in the heavens and in the earth belongs to Him. Who is there that can intercede with Him except by His leave? He knows what is before them and what is behind them, but they do not comprehend any of His knowledge except what He wills. His throne extends over the heavens and the earth; it does not weary Him to preserve them both. He is the Most High, the Tremendous.’

He writes: (This verse), which shows the glory of God, making Him clearly distinct from the false gods the polytheists worship, should also be borne in mind when reading the ‘no compulsion’ verse. It is because this True God is clearly distinguished from false gods that there is no need for compulsion in religion. As Abū Muslim and al-Qaffāl, two eminent exegetes, state: “The verse means that God did not base the matter of faith on compulsion or coercion; rather on choice.”’ (‘Exploring the Qur'an: Context and Impact’).

He goes on: ‘Having explained (in verse 255) the evidence of tawḥīd (oneness of God), in a thorough manner which leaves no excuse, God said the disbeliever no longer has any excuse for upholding his disbelief unless he is forced and coerced to embrace the faith, and this is not allowed or permissible in this world, which is meant to test people to see how they behave, and compulsion and coercion nullify the notion of testing, on which the Final Judgement is based.’

Here are other verses that speak of religious freedom:

‘Praise be to Allāh, who sent down the Scripture to His servant and made it unerringly straight, warning of severe punishment from Him, and (giving) glad news to the believers who do good deeds - an excellent reward that they will always enjoy. It warns those people who assert, “Allāh has offspring.” They have no knowledge about this, nor did their forefathers - it is a monstrous assertion that comes out of their mouths: what they say is nothing but lies. But (Prophet) are you going to worry yourself to death over them if they do not believe in this message?.........Say: “Now the truth has come from your Lord: let those who wish to believe in it do so, and let those who wish to reject it do so.” (Al-Kahf: 1-6; 29); and again: ‘Had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. So can you (Prophet) compel people to believe? (Yunus 99).

Haleem writes:

‘Coercion negates taklīf (individual responsibility which will be the basis for the Final Judgement). It is difficult to see how any of this can be abrogated by Q. 9:5, the ‘Sword Verse’, which gives the Muslims permission to fight some Arab polytheists who had broken their peace treaty. It is also important to note the following statement in Q. 2:256: “Whoever rejects false gods and believes in God has grasped the firmest handhold, one that will never break.” It does not say, “whoever rejects false gods (….) will save himself from being killed”, nor does it say, “whoever embraces false gods will be killed “’
(‘Exploring the Qur'an: Context and Impact’).

Ismail Ibn Kathir tells of a man named Asbaq, who stated:

‘I was a Christian slave owned by ‘Umar Ibn al-Khaṭṭāb. He used to suggest to me that I become a Muslim but I would refuse, upon which he would say, “There is no compulsion in religion” and would add, “Asbaq, if you become a Muslim, we could use your services on matters concerning the Muslims.”’ (‘Tafsir al-quran al-‘azim’; Volume 1; page 333).

Umar ibn al-Khaṭṭāb was the third Caliph of Islam, and a leading Companion of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam).

Abu Bakr is reported to have said: ‘His (Umar's) strictness was there because of my softness when the weight of Caliphate will be over his shoulders he will remain no longer strict. If I will be asked by God to whom I have appointed my successor, I will tell him that I have appointed the best man among your men.’ (Mohammad Hussain Haikal: ‘Umar Farooq-i-Azam’; Chapter 4; pages 112–113).

Here is the Amir al-Mu’min - known for his strictness - and yet he refuses to coerce his slave into becoming a Muslim! Why ever not? Because of his obedience to the verse: ‘There is no compulsion in religion (lā ikrāha fī’l-dīn).’
'Sometimes, silence is the best answer for a fool.' (Alī ibn Abī Tālib‎)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2018 at 6:41am
Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

A word of advice, a leopard never changed its spots.

SA is a political not a religious entity. They use religion for political ends. Those spots will not change.

Their alliance with Israel and against Palestine are now so obvious some have renamed them Saudi Israelia.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Masihi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2018 at 1:49pm
Allah says: "There is no compulsion in religion", meaning: do not force anyone to embrace Islam, because it is clear and its proofs and evidences are manifest. Whoever Allah guides and opens his heart to Islam has indeed embraced it with clear evidence. Whoever Allah misguides blinds his heart and has set a seal on his hearing and a covering on his eyes cannot embrace Islam by force...hence Allah revealed this verse. But, this verse is abrogated by the verse of "fighting...Therefore, all people of the world should be called to Islam. If anyone of them refuses to do so, or refuses to pay the Jizya they should be fought till they are killed. This is the meaning of compulsion. In the Sahih, the Prophet said: "Allah wonders at those people who will enter Paradise in chains", meaning prisoners brought in chains to the Islamic state, then they embrace Islam sincerely and become righteous, and are entered among the people of Paradise.[1]
Tafsir of Ibn Kathir, Al-Firdous Ltd., London, 1999: First Edition, Part 3, pp. 37-38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Masihi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2018 at 1:52pm
Al-Suddi said: “This verse was revealed about a man from the Helpers called Abu'l-Husayn. This man had two sons. It happened that some traders from Syria came to Medina to sell oil. When the traders were about to leave Medina, the two sons of Abu'l-Husayn called them to embrace Christianity. These traders converted to Christianity and then left Medina. Abu'l-Husayn informed the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, of what had happened. He asked him to summon his two sons. But then Allah, exalted is He, revealed (There is no compulsion in religion…). The Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, said: 'May Allah banish both of them. They are the first to disbelieve'. This was before the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, was commanded to fight the people of the Book. But then Allah's saying (There is no compulsion in religion…) was abrogated and the Prophet was commanded to fight the people of the Book in Surah Repentance”.
The reasons for the descent of the verse number (256) of Sura (The Cow)
Asbab Al-Nuzul by Al-Wahidi, trans. Mokrane Guezzou

Here is also a Fatwa for you to review:
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/34770
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