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DavidC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 October 2018 at 9:21pm
Thank you, Asep. This is marvelous and amazing. We are truly loved by God.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 October 2018 at 9:48am

Hi DavidC,

As an additional explanation that the revelations delivered to the Prophets among others:

1.    Taklimullah (speaks directly) to His prophet from behind the veil in a state of awake, as an example when Allah spoke directly to Prophet Moses.

” … And Allah spoke to Moses directly.” [Qur’an 4 :164].

 

2.    Allah delivered revelations through the Angel Gabriel, and this includes several ways:

a. The angel Gabriel appeared in his original form.

b. The angel Gabriel came to the Prophet in the form of a man.

c. The angel Gabriel came to the Prophet but he was not seen, and the Prophet knew of the coming of the Angel Gabriel with the voice that was following him.

 

3.    Revelation is delivered by whispering into the heart.

Allah or the Angel Gabriel placed the revelation that would be conveyed to the heart of the Prophet accompanied by the notice that this was from Allah. Like the hadith narrated by Ibn Abi Dunya in the books of al Qana'ah, and Ibn Majah, and al Hakim in al Mustadrak. The Prophet sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam said:

Verily the Holy Spirit (the Angel of Gabriel) blew into my heart: "There will be no soul to die until Allah Almighty completes its rizqi. Then let you fear Allah, and seek rizqi in a good way. Do not let rizqi delay making one of you look for it by the wrong act. Indeed, what is in the sight of Allah Almighty will not be achieved, except by obeying Him”.

 

4.    Revelation is given by Allah in the form of inspiration.

Allah gives knowledge to the Prophet when he do Ijtihad or when he enters into a problem.

 

5.    Revelation is given through dream.

Allah gave revelation to His prophets by means of dreams, for example, the revelation given to Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham) before slaughtering his son (Prophet Ismael).

 

All such ways of conveying the revelation were accompanied by the conviction of the Prophets that what was received by them was truly coming from God, not a whisper of one's own heart, let alone the deception of Satan.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 October 2018 at 7:46am
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Hi Asep. I pray you are safe from the earthquake. M

Obviously Allah speaks to people from behind a veil, but I don't understand how that would appear to the listener. Hearing voices? Dreams? Conscience or internal dialog? Inspiration?

It is a interesting idiom.

Hi DavidC, thanks for your pray, it happened that my place is not one island with the earthquake, it's too far away, but in my deepest heart I said that one day the island where I lived will also have a great earthquake and even a tsunami. That's just my feeling, but only Allah knows all.

Only the Prophets experienced it that they could hear the voice of their God directly through their ears in a conscious or awakened, such as the example of Prophet Ibrahim, Prophet of Moses, Prophet Isa, Prophet Muhammad and other Prophets. they only hear the voice and do not see visually what their Lord looks like. Even when the Prophet Muhammad did the Isra'Mi'raj he did not meet Allah directly but he only heard a voice because between he and Allah was blocked by light.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 October 2018 at 2:02am
Hi Asep. I pray you are safe from the earthquake. M

Obviously Allah speaks to people from behind a veil, but I don't understand how that would appear to the listener. Hearing voices? Dreams? Conscience or internal dialog? Inspiration?

It is a interesting idiom.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2018 at 9:49pm
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Thank you, Asep. I noticed the metaphor of the veil used on different occasions, including “It is not given to any human being that Allah should speak to him unless (it be) by Revelation, or from behind a veil, or (that) He sends a Messenger (Jibril angel) to reveal what He wills by His Leave. Verily, He is Most High, Most Wise.”

Apologies for not knowing the correct citation for that quotation. I think I understand the Messenger, but can you help me understand what is 'from behind a veil' and how it differs from Revelation? Thank you again for your generosity in sharing your understanding.

Dear DaviC,

What Jerry Myers has said is in accordance with my understanding contained in the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad as I have said when answering an article from Bint Atta before.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JerryMyers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2018 at 7:12am
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Thanks Jerry. The common American meaning of behind or beyond the veil implies communication with the dead. The Bible says communication with the dead is possible but forbidden. A veil was also used to visually screen the tabernacle from its inception in Exodus until it rent itself in two at the Calvary event.


You’re most welcome, David.

The act of trying to communicate with the Unseen (the dead, angel, the devil, the jinn and what have you) is also forbidden in Islam.

Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

I do now see where the English translation might not require that the three methods be exclusive of each other, but a close and prayerful reading of the Arabic seems essential. This is a case where the English transltion is inadequate.


The poetic linguistic style of the Quranic Arabic, at times, carries a far deeper meaning or implication and thus, the Quran requires its readers to think and ponder beyond some of its written verses. A good example would be the commandment on adultery. The Bible said that you should not commit adultery/fornication while the Quran said you should not approach or come close to adultery/fornication. Both carry a similar command, but, the phrase ‘should not approach adultery’ carries a far larger meaning than ‘should not commit adultery’.

‘Should not approach adultery’ would mean NOT only you should avoid the act of adultery, BUT, you should also avoid indulging in activities that could lead you to the act of adultery/fornication. Thus, Islam forbid you to be involved in activities that can arouse your sexual desires such as reading/watching pornographic materials, unchecked freedom of interaction between males and females and other activities that could eventually lead you to the act of adultery/fornication.

So, yes, you’re correct to say “a close and prayerful reading of the Arabic is essential” to understand the Quran, but, I believe so are the sayings of Jesus as quoted in the gospels which are easily misunderstood if taken literally and/or read out of context.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 September 2018 at 10:53am
Thanks Jerry. The common American meaning of behind or beyond the veil implies communication with the dead. The Bible says communication with the dead is possible but forbidden. A veil was also used to visually screen the tabernacle from its inception in Exodus until it rent itself in two at the Calvary event.

I do now see where the English translation might not require that the three methods be exclusive of each other, but a close and prayerful reading of the Arabic seems essential. This is a case where the English transltion is inadequate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JerryMyers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 September 2018 at 5:20am
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Thank you, Asep. I noticed the metaphor of the veil used on different occasions, including “It is not given to any human being that Allah should speak to him unless (it be) by Revelation, or from behind a veil, or (that) He sends a Messenger (Jibril angel) to reveal what He wills by His Leave. Verily, He is Most High, Most Wise.”

Apologies for not knowing the correct citation for that quotation. I think I understand the Messenger, but can you help me understand what is 'from behind a veil' and how it differs from Revelation? Thank you again for your generosity in sharing your understanding.


If I may - The phrase “from behind a veil” would mean hearing a voice but NOT seeing the speaker. A ‘Revelation’ is a (divine) disclosure of
something not commonly known to the masses. Thus, “from behind a veil” is one of the ways God Almighty communicate with His chosen servant, may it be to receive His Revelation, a warning of an impending danger, instructions to handle certain situations which His prophet may be facing, etc.
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