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What Quran tells about Religion of Ibraham

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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2018 at 7:31am
[quote]

It is easy to say that the other side is not proper Muslim. So Kill Them!!!


Easy solution; Get both sides to talk to the likes of me for a bit and suddenly they will be brothers.[quote]


Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Calm Tim, Islam does not teach to kill each other, including to non-Muslims, because human enemies are cursed demons who always whisper to the human heart to behave badly.Even though Muslims must kill, it must be in accordance with the word of Allah in the Quran 60:8
Therefore, not all Muslims in the world have understood the contents of the Quran, let alone you.


Today Syria has a war going on which is very largely about the division between the two main branches of Islam. So has Yemen. So has Iraq.

As I said get the Sunni and Shia who are feeling that they should force the other side to see the correct light of Islam to talk to the likes of me for a bit and try to explain the difference between Sunni and Chere or whatever and the cause for the present war between Muslims will nolonger work in their thinking.

They might be a little upset with me but that's no change so.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peace maker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 September 2018 at 6:28pm
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Peacemaker, I recommend you read "Muhammad - His Life and Times" by Martin Lings. The best English language biography and a fascinating, easy read taken from the best original sources. If you learn how Muhummad actually acted and compare that to the Qu'ran your comparisons will be more accurate.
Martin Lings did not live in Muahammad's time so his only resources what he have was Biblical and Quranic
sources which in fact the Quran is not reliable source of all the Hadiths of Muhammad seems more reliable.
 
You can not compare the Quran from the Bible cause the Quran is mostly borrowed from Jewish,Christian and pagan sources and Muhammad's own imagination and twisted it to fit his own agenda to gain full power over all Arabs and Jews etc.
 
Abraham was not near Mecca and never said Mecca cause the word Mecca did not existed cause there were no Arabs in Abraham's time even Arabia was not there it was not inhabited.
So I don't no where Muslim apologist get there historical evidence from cause there is none but only Islamic folklore.
 
This is a part of Martin Lings book which is only to elevate Islam and not providing the real facts and exposing the real truth of Islam.
 

And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagaroutofheavenandsaidtoher: Whataileththee, Hagar?Fearnot, for God hath heard the voice ofthe lad where he is. Arise and lift up the lad and hold him in thy hand, for I will make him a great nation. And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well ofwater,'

The water was a spring which God caused to well up from the sand at the touch of Ishmael's heel; and thereafter the valley soon became a halt for caravans by reason of the excellence and abundance of the water; and the well was named Zamzam.

As to Genesis, it is the book of Isaac and his descendants, not of Abraham's other line. Of Ishmael it tells us: And God was with the lad; and he grew and dwelt in the wilderness and became an archer? After that it scarcely mentions his name; except to inform us that the two brothers Isaac and Ishmael together buried their father in Hebron, and that some years later Esau married his cousin, the daughter of Ishmael. But there is indirect praise of Ishmael and his mother in the Psalm which opens How amiable are Thy tabernacles, 0 Lord of hosts, and which tells of the miracle of Zamzam as having been caused by their passing through the valley: Blessed is the man whose strength is in Thee; inuihose heart are the ways ofthem who passing through the valley ofBaca make it a well:'

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peace maker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2018 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Calm Tim, Islam does not teach to kill each other, including to non-Muslims, because human enemies are cursed demons who always whisper to the human heart to behave badly.
Even though Muslims must kill, it must be in accordance with the word of Allah in the Quran 60:8
Therefore, not all Muslims in the world have understood the contents of the Quran, let alone you.
So Muslims must kill according to the Quran 60:8. Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion – [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers.
 
 
 
 
What about the other killing verses in the Quran? So don't come and tell me I read it out of context!
 

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into  raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help." 

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".  This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah'). 

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers. 

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."


All the verses that you give occur when Muslims are fought, and Muslims cannot be silent if they were fought by others (must) fight for the sake of life and religion.

Therefore, if you only see the Quran in translation, it is as if all non-Muslims must be fought. You must know the Asbabun-nuzul (the cause of the verse revealed).

All the verses you gave were when the battle of Badr and the battle of Uhud.

These verses can also be used today if Muslims are oppressed and persecuted by other nations. Muslims are forbidden by Allah to attack others who do not attack them.



 
So this is still hapening today why didn't Jesus put war verses in the Gospels?
Then you tell me  Muhammad's  carravan  raids  was  also a act of war it was blattant robbery thats what it was. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garutea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2019 at 8:10pm
Hi Peace maker,
Sorry for the late answer because in the past few months I have had difficulty posting to this forum, I don't know why.

I think the situation in Jesus' era was very different from that of the Prophet Muhammad, where at the time of the Prophet Muhammad there were many religious ideas which disliked him, including some Quraysh people, because it was very reasonable for the sake of maintaining his salvation and the religion of monotheism (tauheed) must fight. Whereas at the time of Prophet Isa (Jesus) it was not like that, only from some Israelites who did not like him.

As for the results of the war reparations, he used them to support poor families and those who converted to Islam.
The Prophet Muhammad was very afraid of Allah laws, so he knew how to use the spoils of war to conform to the pleasure of Allah.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peace maker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2019 at 11:39am
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Hi Peace maker,
Sorry for the late answer because in the past few months I have had difficulty posting to this forum, I don't know why.

I think the situation in Jesus' era was very different from that of the Prophet Muhammad, where at the time of the Prophet Muhammad there were many religious ideas which disliked him, including some Quraysh people, because it was very reasonable for the sake of maintaining his salvation and the religion of monotheism (tauheed) must fight. Whereas at the time of Prophet Isa (Jesus) it was not like that, only from some Israelites who did not like him.

As for the results of the war reparations, he used them to support poor families and those who converted to Islam.
The Prophet Muhammad was very afraid of Allah laws, so he knew how to use the spoils of war to conform to the pleasure of Allah.
So you tell me Muhammad just make war and rob caravans just for charity so much for generous prophet who must rob and make war to support poor families what happened to Kadijha's bussiness why didn't Muhammad go on with her trade cause no it was easier to steal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garutea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2019 at 9:33pm
That's just your prejudice.
Many people do not like him since he was alive until now, so they assume that the Prophet Muhammad's hobbies are war, steal etc., even though he was fought, he had to fight to defend the religion which was blessed by Allah on this earth, namely to save the monotheistic teachings (Tauheed) of the previous Prophets and Apostles before him.
One that is very contrary to your perception is that he never stole, 
even bad prejudice in his heart is forbidden by Allah.
Today, many people bend the historical truth.
But Alhamdulillah, because of Allah's help his teachings can spread throughout the world.
We can understand that logically: if the Prophet Muhammad had a bad behavior, then it is impossible for his teachings to spread like you see now. (God bless him).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peace maker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2019 at 11:36am
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

That's just your prejudice.
Many people do not like him since he was alive until now, so they assume that the Prophet Muhammad's hobbies are war, steal etc., even though he was fought, he had to fight to defend the religion which was blessed by Allah on this earth, namely to save the monotheistic teachings (Tauheed) of the previous Prophets and Apostles before him.
One that is very contrary to your perception is that he never stole, 
even bad prejudice in his heart is forbidden by Allah.
Today, many people bend the historical truth.
But Alhamdulillah, because of Allah's help his teachings can spread throughout the world.
We can understand that logically: if the Prophet Muhammad had a bad behavior, then it is impossible for his teachings to spread like you see now. (God bless him).

I don’t know what constitutes kindness for Muslims. Raiding innocent civilians, killing unarmed people taken by surprise, or massacring their entire male population and enslaving their women and children and even raping them are not acts of kindness. The claim that Islam promotes kindness is an insult to human intelligence. This is like saying Nazism promotes kindness. Islam has advanced by terror and not by kindness. The order to cast terror in the heart of the enemy is mandated in the Quran 3.151, 8.12. The enemy is anyone who Muhammad chose to attack. These people did not have to be hostile to Muhammad or have done anything against him. He decided that those who do not submit to his cult are the enemy and must be subdued. Or those who are wealthy are the enemy.  Muhammad boasted "I have been made victorious with terror" Bukhari 4:52:220  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garutea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2019 at 7:42pm
You have been influenced by the behavior of some Muslims so you have that understanding.
Please remember, Islam does not teach radicalism.
If the Prophet Muhammad was a radical person, it was impossible for his teachings to spread throughout the world.
Here is the proof:
Allah Says:
"Then thanks to the grace of God you (Muhammad) are gentle to them. If you act hard and have a rough heart, surely they will distance themselves from your surroundings. Therefore forgive them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult with them in the matter. Then, if you have made up your mind, then put your trust in Allah. Truly, Allah loves those who tawakkal."
(Ali 'Imran 3: 159)

As for what you wrote (3,151) means Allah tells us that those who associate Him will go to hell.
And what you wrote (8.12)
You do not know why that word of Allah revealed.
That verse sent down to strengthen the Muslims Ummah during the Badr war when there were more opponents than the Muslims Ummah.
And Allah helped the Prophet Muhammad and his army with the help of angels.
It happened in the desert and rock hills. There is no civil society etc, only troops versus troops.
You said:
Muhammad boasted "I have been made victorious with terror" Bukhari 4:52:220  
Where did the hadith come from?
It was a political nuanced sentence so that everyone assumed that the Prophet Muhammad was arrogant and radical.
The correct is:
The Prophet sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam said:
"This little army has won because of Allah's help."
I have told in this forum before that some of the hadiths are authentic and some are fake, except the Qoran.

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