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Wants a proof that Quran is God's word !!

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alisondmurray View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 April 2018 at 1:31am
Hi, I looked up what evidence the quran has to prove itself as the word of god, and I must say I found a lot of scientific facts and mathematical miracles in the Quran and it proved to me that this book was not by any humans but that doesn't necessarily means its from the one god, Islam teaches us that there are aliens in the world and we are not alone, and there is a high possibility there are aliens with high technology that can easily deceive Mohammad and give him this religion with some scientific miracles to make people believe in him what I want is a prove that cannot be from anyone but god not aliens or humans or devils or whatever I want an evidence that can only come from god, I cant build my belief without %100 evidence, 
I want to make sure I am worshiping the right god in the right religion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MIAW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2018 at 2:46am
Originally posted by alisondmurray alisondmurray wrote:

...Islam teaches us that there are aliens in the world and we are not alone, and there is a high possibility there are aliens with high technology that can easily deceive Mohammad and give him this religion with some scientific miracles to make people believe in him ...

Hi Alison,

Please remind me: where does Islam teach us that there are 'Aliens' in the world?

I just want to make sure that I understand your question properly: So... let me get this right...

According to your question: Some 'Alien' might have come from 'somewhere' in the year 610 AD... he chose a man who cannot read or write... he gave him the Qur'an (over 23 years)... he told him to worship a Third entity (namely: Allah SWT)... and then disappeared.

In a way: It is actually (somewhat) correct! Smile

- The 'Alien' is an angel (Jibreel AS Gabriel)
- This angel is only a messenger who was sent by... Allah SWT
- The Qur'an contains 'scietific miracles' because Allah SWT is All-Knowing, which means that He Knows about all scientific advances and inventions throughout the history of our world till the end of time.
- if the 'Alien' wanted to deceive Prophet Muhammad, he would have instructed him to worship the alien himself. (i.e. what would be the 'alien's' point otherwise?)
- This 'Alien' brought the same message many, many times before. He is the same 'Alien' who came to all prophets PBUT. It is his job/task.
- The last message (i.e. Islam) is the only one that remained in its pure, unchanged-by-men form.


Quote ...I want to make sure I am worshiping the right god in the right religion.

Islam is the correct religion, sent to us by the only correct God Worthy of worship. We are not doing Him a favour by worshiping Him. He does not 'NEED' us to worship Him, He is Doing us a favour by 'Allowing us' to worship Him. And we are so grateful to Him for Showing us the correct path and way.







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2018 at 12:19pm
I think Muhummad could read and write as he successfully ran Kadijah's businesses. The term "unlettered" in English means lacking formal advanced education. It is not the same as illiterate. Anyone not a college graduate is considered unlettered.

I may be mistaken, and welcome correction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MIAW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2018 at 1:34am
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

I think Muhummad could read and write as he successfully ran Kadijah's businesses.
  

Greetings David,

I happen to know many people who are successful in business, but can hardly spell their name. 
Similarly, I know some people from my childhood school days who did not have the slightest interest in education and learning, and yet, they are very successful businessmen today.

To link 'business success' to 'academic achievement' is naive and incorrect.

And let us face it... in order to [come up with/invent/author/write] a whole text of the caliber of the Qur'an, Prophet Muhammad PBUH needed to be a post-graduate of the 'Harvard' of his time! (and then some...). In fact Allah SWT challenges (in the Qur'an) all the distinguished scholars of that era (or any era) (many of whom were Jewish scholars...etc) to come up with something similar... and they couldn't.

Opponents of Islam always try to convince us that Prophet Muhammad PBUH could read and write, in order to try and lead some people to think that he invented the Qur'an himself... well... consider these two points:

1) Throughout history, you read and hear about people who cannot read or write, pretending to be academics and knowledgeable, in order to have a higher social standing and be accepted among the 'elite'... but you never hear of the opposite... i.e. why would anyone go through years of blood, sweat and hardship of learning and academic achievement... only to then pretend that he cannot even write or read his own name... and be able to keep up this 'comedy of pretensions' day and night for 63 years! (without faltering or making a mistake once!).

2) If prophet Muhammad PBUH was 'pretending' illiteracy, then we would have learnt this from the people who knew him very well from childhood (especially his opponents of the time... who would never have let something like this slip or go unnoticed or unchallenged!)... in fact no one, friend or foe, doubted his illiteracy... it's only in recent times that opponents of Islam 'lowered' the 'challenge level' to rock bottom.


Quote ...The term "unlettered" in English means lacking formal advanced education. It is not the same as illiterate. Anyone not a college graduate is considered unlettered.

I may be mistaken, and welcome correction.

I think you have too much of a case of 'Lost in Translation' Smile

Different translations use different terms, that is why it is always safer to take things from the 'origin'. I can tell you that the term 'Ummi' in Arabic means 'someone who cannot read or write'. Period.

Examples of various translations:

Chapter (7) sūrat l-aʿrāf (The Heights)

Sahih International: Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful.

Pickthall: Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful.

Yusuf Ali: "Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper."

Shakir: Those who follow the Messenger-Prophet, the Ummi, whom they find written down with them in the Taurat and the Injeel (who) enjoins them good and forbids them evil, and makes lawful to them the good things and makes unlawful to them impure things, and removes from them their burden and the shackles which were upon them; so (as for) those who believe in him and honor him and help him, and follow the light which has been sent down with him, these it is that are the successful.

Muhammad Sarwar: There are those who follow the Messengers, the illiterate Prophet (not conventionally educated), whose description they find written in the Torah and the Gospel. [He (the Messengers) enjoins them to do good and forbids them to do all that is unlawful, makes lawful for them all that is pure and unlawful all that is filthy, removes their burdens and the entanglements in which they are involved]. Those who believe in him, honor and help him, and follow the light which is sent down to him, will have everlasting happiness.

Mohsin Khan: Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e.Muhammad SAW) whom they find written with them in the Taurat (Torah) (Deut, xviii, 15) and the Injeel (Gospel) (John xiv, 16), - he commands them for Al-Ma'ruf (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam has ordained); and forbids them from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds, and all that Islam has forbidden); he allows them as lawful At-Taiyibat [(i.e. all good and lawful) as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.], and prohibits them as unlawful Al-Khaba'ith (i.e. all evil and unlawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.), he releases them from their heavy burdens (of Allah's Covenant), and from the fetters (bindings) that were upon them. So those who believe in him (Muhammad SAW), honour him, help him, and follow the light (the Quran) which has been sent down with him, it is they who will be successful.

Arberry: those who follow the Messenger, 'the Prophet of the common folk, whom they find written down with them in the Torah and the Gospel, bidding them to honour, and forbidding them dishonour, making lawful for them the good things and making unlawful for them the corrupt things, and relieving them of their loads, and the fetters that were upon them. Those who believe in him and succour him and help him, and follow the light that has been sent down with him -- they are the prosperers.'


The Unlettered Prophet


Question: Is there any evidence that the Prophet Muhammad was unable to read or write?


Answer: 


Praise be to Allaah.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 
"Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read not write whom they find written with them in the Tawraat and the Injeel, - he commands them for al-Ma’roof (i.e., Islamic monotheism and all that Islaam has ordained); and forbids them from al-Munkar (i.e., disbelief, polytheism of all kinds, and all that Islaam has forbidden); he allows them as lawful al-Tayyibaat (i.e., all good and lawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.), and prohibits them as unlawful al-khabaa’ith (i.e., all evil and unlawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.), he releases them from their heavy burdens (of Allaah’s Covenant) and from the fetters (bindings) that were upon them. So those who believe in him (Muhammad), honor him, help him and follow the light (the Qur’aan) which has been sent down with him, it is they who will be successful."
[al-A’raaf 7:157]


Al-Qurtubi, may Allaah have mercy on him, said in his tafseer of this aayah: "Allaah says ‘al-ummi.’ Ibn ‘Abbaas, may Allaah be pleased with him, said: ‘Your Prophet was unlettered, unable to read or write or calculate.’ Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): ‘Neither did you (O Muhammad) read any book before it (this Qur’an), nor did you write any book (whatsoever) with your right hand . . .’ 
[al-‘Ankaboot 29:48]."


Ibn Katheer, may Allaah have mercy on him, said in his tafseer of the second aayah quoted [al-‘Ankaboot 29:48]:
"Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): ‘Neither did you (O Muhammad) read any book before it (this Qur’aan), nor did you write any book (whatsoever) with your right hand . . .’ i.e., ‘you (O Muhammad) lived among your people for a while before you brought this Qur’aan to them, and you never read any book or were able to write anything. Everyone among your people and others knows that you are an unlettered man, who does not read or write.’ This is how he was described in the previous Books as Allaah said (interpretation of the meaning): ‘Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read not write whom they find written with them in the Tawraat and the Injeel, - he commands them for al-Ma’roof (i.e., Islamic monotheism and all that Islaam has ordained); and forbids them from al-Munkar (i.e., disbelief, polytheism of all kinds, and all that Islaam has forbidden) . . .’ [al-A’raaf 7:157]. 

Hence the Prophet will remain unable to write even one line or one letter, until the Day of Resurrection. He had scribes who would write down in front of him the Revelation and letters to different regions. . . . Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): ‘. . . In that case, indeed, the followers of falsehood might have doubted.’ [al-‘Ankaboot 29:48], i.e., if you had been good at it (reading and writing), some of the ignorant people would have doubted you and said that you had learnt this from the previous Books left by the Prophets. Indeed, they say this despite the fact that they know he was unlettered and unable to write, as it says in the Qur’aan (interpretation of the meaning): ‘And they say: "Tales of the ancients, which he has written down, and they are dictated to him morning and afternoon."’ [al-Furqaan 25:5]"

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

"He it is Who sent among the unlettered ones a Messenger from among themselves, reciting to them His Verses, purifying them (from the filth of disbelief and polytheism), and teaching them the Book and al-Hikmah (al-Sunnah). And verily, they had been before in manifest error."
[al-Jumu’ah 62:2]

Al-Qurtubi, may Allaah have mercy on him, said in his tafseer of this aayah:
"It was said: ‘the unlettered ones’ means those who do not write. Such were the Quraysh. Mansoor reported from Ibraaheem, who said: ‘Al-ummi (the unlettered one) is the one who neither reads nor writes. "A Messenger from among themselves" means Muhammad , who was unlettered and never read a book nor learned how.’ Al-Mawardi said:
‘What is good about the fact that Allaah sent an unlettered Prophet? There are three things: 
(i) his message fulfilled the foretelling of the previous Prophets; 
(ii) this made him similar to and closer to other Prophets; 
(iii) this would eliminate all suspicion that he had learned the message he preached from books and writings that he had read."

I say: all of this is evidence of the miraculous nature and truth of his Prophethood. 

(The above has been summarized from the Tafseer of al-Qurtubi, may Allaah have mercy on him). 



David,

Allah SWT Chose Muhammad PBUH to be Illiterate for a good purpose. Can you see that purpose?


MIAW









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DavidC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2018 at 3:46am
Thank you very much. That clears things up for me.

As for speculation on God's purpose, and as this is the interfaith forum, in the bible God almost always selects the most unlikely as his tools so that success may only be attributed to God and not to the messenger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yandex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2018 at 2:00am
Based on my research, in the whole Quran, the word Ummi is used to refer to one who don't have or yet to be given the Books/ knowledge by Allah. It did not mean unable to read & write.

And among them are unlettered ones who do not know the Scripture except in wishful thinking, but they are only assuming. (Quran  2 78) (transliteration –ommiyyoona)

So if they dispute with you (Muhammad SAW) say: "I have submitted myself to Allah (in Islam), and (so have) those who follow me." And say to those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and to those who are illiterates (Arab pagans): "Do you (also) submit yourselves (to Allah in Islam)?" If they do, they are rightly guided; but if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message; and Allah is All-Seer of (His) slaves. ( Quran 3 20) (transliteration –walommiyyeena)

He it is Who sent among the unlettered ones a Messenger (Muhammad SAW) from among themselves, reciting to them His Verses, purifying them (from the filth of disbelief and polytheism), and teaching them the Book (this Quran, Islamic laws and Islamic jurisprudence) and Al-Hikmah (As-Sunnah: legal ways, orders, acts of worship, etc. of Prophet Muhammad SAW). And verily, they had been before in mainfest error; (Quran 62 2) (transliteration-ommiyyeena)

Among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) is he who, if entrusted with a Cantar (a great amount of wealth, etc.), will readily pay it back; and among them there is he who, if entrusted with a single silver coin, will not repay it unless you constantly stand demanding, because they say: "There is no blame on us to betray and take the properties of the illiterates (Arabs)." But they tell a lie against Allah while they know it. (Quran 3 75) (transliteration- al-ommiyyeena)

Also the Sahih al-Bukhari confirms prophet Muhammad can read & write.

Narrated 'Ubaidullah bin 'Abdullah:

Ibn 'Abbas said, "When the ailment of the Prophet became worse, he said, 'Bring for me (writing) paper and I will write for you a statement after which you will not go astray.' But 'Umar said, 'The Prophet is seriously ill, and we have got Allah's Book with us and that is sufficient for us.' But the companions of the Prophet differed about this and there was a hue and cry. On that the Prophet said to them, 'Go away (and leave me alone). It is not right that you should quarrel in front of me." Ibn 'Abbas came out saying, ""It was most unfortunate (a great disaster) that Allah's Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 3, Number 114)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tobias Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2018 at 10:41am
Hello Alison and blessings...

It is not for me or anyone else in this world to tell people what to believe as regards religions or God or the Qu-Ran etc...
Each and every one of us must reach inside to know what is right or wrong,, True of false,,   And yes,, A lot of us make the wrong choices as we go through life and hopefully learn from them...
I have also not committed myself to any religion as I have the same doubts in my heart as to the origins of the scriptures,,,   And more so ,,,   Why would there be more than one religion if we only had one god?
The fact that we have multiple religions tells me that someone is not being ,, Should i say,, Honest?

Throughout the world in recent times we are seeing a growing community that are now asking the question. Is The earth flat?   Why is this???
500 years ago the human race knew the world was flat and today they know the world is a ball..   What is the truth of the matter?

What I do know in my heart is that a lie always comes to the surface given enough time and it does indicate given the facts and through personal observation that there is a possibility that our human experience is taking place upon a flat plane . But I still have not subscribed to that model,, Or the Ball earth.   But one of them has to be correct to a certain degree right?

Well maybe,,,    There is an ommision made by most by not considering that we could operate within an energy field only where our five senses of perception are served by this field, And solidity is no more than energy perception coming to our consciousness..    A Quantum existence if you like..

Let's hypothesize that the earth is flat as our ancestors believed,,,
This would indicate that we do have a creator as it lies under a firmament dome below the great sea..
The stars are within the firmament and rotate around us as opposed to the earth aimlessly hurtling through a void of space.

If this construct were to be true,, Only a superior being could make this,, A creator.
This makes us his creation and have a purpose to our lives..

The ball earth makes us think that perhaps we are a cosmic accident as the big bang theorists would have us believe..   

From the biblical scriptures you will find that Satan got very jealous of Adam when God proclaimed that Adam was of both body and spirit.
Satan reacted to his own jealousy and said to god..
" I will make Adam and All of his children worship me before the time has ended"

Now we see the world in turmoil and stress as a result of Satan's efforts to undermine us...

I have no belief in any religion or particular God but I do know that we have a creator of whom trusts us not to fall victim to the devil and his tactics.

My message to you is to trust nothing and no one without consent from your heart .

God is pure love,,    Religions cause suffering...




Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2018 at 1:36pm
There are however Muslims who claim that he could read


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The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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