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Wants a proof that Quran is God's word !!
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Al Masihi View Drop Down
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Points: 141 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Masihi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2018 at 7:01am
If new scientific discoveries keep confirming the Quran how come muslims never used the information in the Quran to discover all these things before modern scientists, instead of misinterpreting Quran verses to fit with scientific discoveries despite no tafsirs of these Quran verses to back up such claims.
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airmano View Drop Down
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@ajzhyder
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Most of the people who don't believe that Quran is word of God, believe that it must have been written by Mohammad. Obviously, if it were true, the main purpose of Mohammad would be to obtain glory for himself by pretending as Prophet of God. However, we find in reading the Quran, that Mohammad is mentioned far less times in Quran than other messengers e.g Mooses and Jesus. Compared to them, Mohammad is mentioned only a miniscule amount of time. Had Mohammad been the personality type that these people believe him to be and he be after false glory, he would have mentioned himself the most in Quran. Instead we find word Mohammad mentioned only 4 times in Quran and word Ahmed as 1 time.

If you use Corpus Quran and look for the keyword "messenger" 
you find 239 [entries] for messenger (in 0.006 seconds). Some entries do indeed not refer to Muhammad but I guess the majority does.

Even worse:

If you look for "we" (where Mohammad puts himself linguistically on the same level as God) you find 2116 entries (in 0.009 seconds). 
Again, I did not go through them "we by we" but if only half of them refer to Muhamad (and Allah) than it becomes clear that you hold the book of a perfect nacissic in your hands.  


Airmano
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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airmano View Drop Down
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Points: 884 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2018 at 2:36pm
@Miaw
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Quote Miaw:
You appear to believe only in what you can see. Muslims believe in the 'unseen'. That's why Allah SWT Praises them in the Qur'an, for example [2:3].
However what is really nonsense is that you also believe (rightly but ironically) in the presence of gravitons and Gravity force (e.g. between all objects in the Universe) without seeing it... and yet you don't believe in God, Angels, Jinns... as you cannot see them. Strange.

Can you see the difference between a measurable entity and a fantasy ?

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Quote Airmano
...[many people outside Islam see] Muhammad rather as a cracked criminal ...

Miaw:
You would never see a good Muslim 'lower' themselves so much as to describe the symbols of Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism...etc by such insulting terms.

I understood already that you are morally superior.
BTW:  You seem to have no problems with the thought that I should roast eternally in hell for not believing in Allah. Compared to these torture(r)s [and their silent apple-polishers] I am the nicest chap on earth.

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Quote Miaw:
Allah SWT Addresses 'people of the book' very politely in the Qur'an

You mean like the Banu Qurayza ?

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Quote Miaw:
Hypocrisy... Double standards... There are heads of royal families (queen, King, Emperor), Pope...etc that you would not get away with depicting them in certain ways.

Wrong, just google and you'll find some examples.

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Quote Airmano:
...Did you ever hold (and try to understand) a physics book -written by a renowned scientist -  in your hands ?

Miaw
Rather 'risky and naive' of you...  However, I'd rather not be 'dragged away' to new 'pastures'.

So I think I can safely conclude that the answer is no. 
So what makes you feel competent to comment on subjects you don't seem to understand ?

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Quote Airmano:
...Would you know of... revolutionary new scientific concept which was discovered on the basis of ["scientific" statements in] the Quran ?

Miaw:
Unfair and misleading question. No one is claiming that Scientific discoveries are made on the basis of the Qur'an... Rather: Recent Scientific discoveries keep confirming and explaining the Qur'an in new lights.

From what you write I think that even you [have to] admit -albeit grudgingly- that the information content of the "relevant sentences" in the Quran is such that they do not hold any predictive power [whatsoever]. 

This means what it means.


Airmano
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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Al Masihi View Drop Down
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Points: 141 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Masihi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2018 at 11:13pm
I’m not saying Mohammed copied the Quran from other works he might not have even existed, since no documents report his existence nor document his life except from Islamic sources. The argument that Mohammed (assuming he existed) couldn’t read or write therefore couldn’t have copied from other texts seems to be a really pathetic attempt to deflect evidence that Mohammed plagiarized Jewish, Christian, and Zoroastrian texts into the Quran which is pretty obvious to anyone who read the Quran and understand it. There’s much proof mohammed wrote and read, also if he was infact a trader how could he not be literate traders back then had to be literate since they had to record transactions and record all things they bought. Not to mention early Islamic sources show that the concept of mohammed being illiterate was a later invention meant to give more credibility to the Quran, which practically has no leg to stand on except this argument and its Arabic language argument. Even if let’s say Mohammed existed and couldn’t read or write, I don’t believe Mohammed was deaf, whose to say he couldn’t have had the various texts of other religions read to him, then memorize the words, before asking his scribes to copy the words down.
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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Points: 944 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2018 at 12:31pm
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We don't hate followers of other religions. This is just the usual attempt by 'Atheists' to set religions against each other, with a view to see them fight each other.

Allah SWT Addresses 'people of the book' very politely in the Qur'an (even though He Did Not Have To. i.e. instead, He Could Have Destroyed them instantly for not following his prophet). Here are some examples:

[3:64]  Say, "O People of the Book, come to terms common between us and you: that we worship none but Allah, and that we associate nothing with Him, and that none of us takes others as lords besides Allah." And if they turn away, say, "Bear witness that we have submitted."

[3:65] O People of the Book! Why do you argue about Abraham, when the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed until after him? Will you not reason?

[3:70]  O People of the Book! Why do you reject the revelations of Allah, even as you witness?

[3:71]  O People of the Book! Why do you confound the truth with falsehood, and knowingly conceal the truth?

[3:98]  Say, "O People of the Scripture, why do you reject the Revelations of Allah, when Allah witnesses what you do?"

[3:99]  Say, "O People of the Scripture, why do you hinder from Allah's path those who believe, seeking to distort it, even though you are witnesses? Allah is not unaware of what you do."

[4:171]  O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion, and do not say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, is the Messenger of Allah, and His Word that He conveyed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and do not say, "Three." Refrain—it is better for you. Allah is only one God. Glory be to Him—that He should have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and the earth, and Allah is a sufficient Protector.


1, I, as an atheist, don't ever want to set any religion against another. I very often compair them, and ask you to explain why yours is different to the others that we both agree have it wrong. But, I do this to show you that your faith is not a reasonable thing to use as a cause of war or anything close to that.

The more atheists are setting all religions against us atheists then the more you lot will see each other as on the same side.

Already I have christians telling me that all faiths are valid. This is of course bonkers. There are clearly bonkers faiths out there.

2, The quotes you used, do set out to push your religion onto the other people of the book. That is confrontational.
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MIAW View Drop Down
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Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

Can you see the difference between a measurable entity and a fantasy ?

You've hit the nail on the head with this question. Not everything in life is 'measurable'... and things that are not measurable are not all 'fantasy'. in fact most of them are real.

Without being philosophical, and not wanting to go down this route, I'll say this: The most interesting things in life are the ones you cannot measure, like Belief, Love, Hate, human character, thinking, poverty, happiness, loneliness...etc... unless I am currently addressing a robot!

Indeed this is what some of us are in danger of becoming in our day and age (in our 'modern society'): Pseudo Robots who can only cope and deal with what they can see, touch and measure. This is why they cannot cope with the concept of God in their lives.

Quote BTW:  You seem to have no problems with the thought that I should roast eternally in hell for not believing in Allah. Compared to these torture(r)s [and their silent apple-polishers] I am the nicest chap on earth.

Allah SWT Decides who ends up where on the Day of Judgement... I can talk about 'beliefs' and 'actions'... but I am not allowed to 'decide' about 'particular' people.

As for... 'nicest chap on earth': I never doubted it for a minute! Smile


Quote So what makes you feel competent to comment on subjects you don't seem to understand ?

So you can understand Physics... and that has led you to reject God... Hmmm
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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Points: 944 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2018 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:

Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

Can you see the difference between a measurable entity and a fantasy ?

You've hit the nail on the head with this question. Not everything in life is 'measurable'... and things that are not measurable are not all 'fantasy'. in fact most of them are real.

Without being philosophical, and not wanting to go down this route, I'll say this: The most interesting things in life are the ones you cannot measure, like Belief, Love, Hate, human character, thinking, poverty, happiness, loneliness...etc... unless I am currently addressing a robot!

Indeed this is what some of us are in danger of becoming in our day and age (in our 'modern society'): Pseudo Robots who can only cope and deal with what they can see, touch and measure. This is why they cannot cope with the concept of God in their lives.


The things above are measurable.
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MIAW View Drop Down
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Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

...BTW:  You seem to have no problems with the thought that I should roast eternally in hell for not believing in Allah...

You are wrong Airmano... I would really like to see you dwell in Paradise for eternity... You see: this is the difference between 'us' and 'you'... You think "rot in Hell" and we think "May Allah Guide you to Paradise".

We are all trying to save ourselves from Allah's 'Hellfire'... and hopefully earn Allah's 'Paradise'... and a good step to start with is to acknowledge the 'HOST'.
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