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Who is the comforter

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JerryMyers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JerryMyers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 April 2018 at 9:35am
Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

Jesus also says he will go up to the father and send the comforter, therefore claiming to be equal with God. We dis-tinguish between commandments and other verses when Jesus was addressing people at his time. "You" means the apostles at his time, according to the Quran no one can send the comforter except God.


Sure, we can distinguish the target audience of ‘commandments’ and that of Jesus’ sayings. However, in John 14:16, Jesus was using ‘you’ as a general ‘you’, not just to those present. How do we know this ? Because the preceding verse (John 14:15), Jesus said “If you love me, keep my commandments”. Was Jesus telling his disciples only they must keep his commandments and future generations NEED NOT keep his commandments ?? Obviously that cannot be Jesus’ intention, which then tells us the ‘you’ Jesus used in John 14:15-16 was a general ‘you’ meant to include future generations.

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

The Comforter would come in the life time of Christ's disciples; in fact before they depart Jerusalem (Acts 1:4-5, John 16:7)------Prophet Muhammad was born long after the Comforter must have come, i.e. 500 years later.


The Comforter never came in the lifetime of Jesus Christ. If you believe the Comforter arrived in the lifetime of Jesus Christ, then tell me how did the Comforter guide them into all truths, and this Comforter will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell them what is yet to come (John 16:13) ?

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

(ii). The Comforter is not a physical being and can't be seen ordinarily (John 14:17)-------Prophet Muhammad was a physical being and ordinarily visible.


The Comforter IS a physical being who is filled with the Holy Spirit or you can say, a man who has the spirit of truth in him. Jesus himself was also said to be the Comforter as he too was filled with the Holy Spirit and also said to have the spirit of truth in him – “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate/comforter with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” - 1 John 2:1.

So, when Jesus said he will pray to God to send another comforter/advocate, he was referring to another prophet who will come and this prophet will tell the world of the truth of Jesus’ teaching. Note also that Jesus said ‘ANOTHER Comforter’, meaning ANOTHER prophet like himself – it cannot be ANOTHER Holy Spirit as there’s only ONE Holy Spirit and that’s the Holy Spirit of God.


Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

(iii). The Comforter would come from Heaven di-rectly from God (John 15:26)--------Prophet Muhammad, with due re-spect, was ordinarily born in this World to pagan parents; grew up or-dinarily, became an employed trader etc before he eventually became the Prophet of Islam.


Sure, the Holy Spirit came from God and the Holy Spirit will be with anyone who do to the Will of God.


Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

(iv). The Comforter, according to Jesus himself, was that Holy Spirit which his disciples Knew because he (the Spirit) was with them and was going to dwell in their mind (14:17)------------Muhammad never leaved with Christ's disciples and he was a physi-cal being who did not dwell in the mind.


The Comforter IS NOT the Holy Spirit but, the Holy Spirit (which IS the Spirit of God) is the Spirit that made the man. In fact, you had your first breath because the Holy Spirit came upon you – “The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.” – Job 33:4.

So, yes, the disciples KNEW the Holy Spirit but the Holy Spirit was no longer with the people, so, Jesus was promising them that when the Comforter come, he will teach them of all truths (John 16:13) and when this happened, the Holy Spirit will return to them.

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

(v). The Comforter would be with Christ's disciples and, of course the subsequent faithful for ever (John 14:16)----------Muhammad has died long ago allegedly of food poisoning.



Well, if you are a man of faith and only do the Will of God, the Holy Spirit will be with you forever and that’s what Jesus meant by ‘forever’.


Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

(vi) As Jesus promised, the Comforter came to the disciples before they departed Jerusalem (Acts 2:3-4)---------Like I said earlier, Muhammad came a distant 6 generations later.


As I said earlier, the Comforter NEVER came to the disciples. Can you tell me how did the Comforter guide them into all the truth, and that this Comforter will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell them what is yet to come (John 16:13), if you believe Acts 2 is the fulfillment of John 14:16 ???


Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

Mohammed is not the comforter. Also did the com-forter came to glorify Jesus, Mohammed did not claim to be sent by Jesus nor glorify him, he claim to glorify Allah.


Well, how did the Holy Spirit glorify Jesus if you believe the Comforter is NOT another man ?? Jesus said this Comforter will not speak on his own, but will only speaks what he hears – so, in Acts 2, did the Holy Spirit say anything ?? So, how could the Holy Spirit be the Comforter Jesus was talking about ?? As I said, Jesus was talking of ANOTHER Comforter, that is, another prophet like himself who will not speak on his own, but will only speaks what he hears and that can only mean the Comforter Jesus was talking about is Muhammad, who like Jesus, spoke only what he hears. The Comforter, who is the spirit of truth/Holy spirit, simply means that the man, the Comforter, is filled with the Spirit of God. In other words, this 'another comforter' will be another prophet like Jesus, that is, they are all chosen by God to be His representatives on earth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JerryMyers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 April 2018 at 9:41am
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

 
What do you meant by this?
 
So, no, Muhammad is not eternal or have a pre-existent life, BUT, he was the Comforter who God had sent to the world as promised by Jesus to his disciples.
 
Will he be with us forever?



What will be forever is not the person, BUT, the Spirit of God and the legacy and teaching of the said (another) Comforter, Muhammad, just as the true teachings of Jesus will be with us forever. Likewise, my dad passed away long ago, but he’s always be with me in spirit and in his sayings/guidance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Masihi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2018 at 11:18pm
The comforter had a pre existent life, is eternal, and will be with the believers forever. The comforter will literally abide with us forever and guide us, this is the holy spirit. The comforter would also venerate and glorify Jesus, Mohammed came to glorify and venerate Allah no one else, to suggest otherwise would be great shirk in Islam. The Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and Son and will speak their commands. Your interpretations are your own and aren't shared by scholars of the Bible.

Acts 2:4

 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

In John 14:15-18, Jesus said,

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Mohammed in his life never claimed to be sent in the name of Jesus, that would be shirk. Acts comes directly after John so is most likely fulfilling John. The Holy Spirit inspires the words of Jesus into the apostles so he is technically communicating with the disciples of Christ. Jesus never used the word prophet, never described the comforter as a man, and he said the comforter would dwell with in them, so its definitely talking about a spirit of sorts.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2Acts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 1:44am
Hello Jerry Myers

I have read your posts and in response I make the following points. You need to read the Bible, particularly the Book of Acts in its literacy context rather than just trying to put your individual interpretation onto single verses. The “ Comforter” described by Jesus in the gospels is obviously a specific, individual and unique being and not to be generalised to all Godly or righteous people.

You are wrong about the Holy Spirit not coming in the life time of the disciples. It is well documented in the Book of Acts. Read Acts Chapter 2. You will also note that the disciples themselves were empowered by the Holy Spirit at this time to perform miracles them selves.

You are also wrong about the early disciples not being taught by The Holy Spirit, s can be seen from the following verses all written by the early disciples -

 “For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.” Romans 8:13–17   

 

“And as for you, the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone teach you; but as His anointing teaches you concerning all things … John 2.27.

 

You also have not responded to Al Masihis point where he said In the Greek, Holy Ghost is Pnevma to agion or agio pnevmato. The word Agion means holy. In other words, this coming being is going to be sinless and pure. Yet, Muhammad is described as a sinner in surah 40:55, 48:2, and 47:19.

You state Jesus was referring to another prophet who will come … a prophet like himself.

You overlook the fact Jesus saw Himself as more than just a prophet. He himself said He is the judgement of God that will come at the end times to judge the world. This is how he refers to Himself in reference to The Son of Man from the Book of Daniel. Hence Jesus saw himself as for more than “just a prophet”. Both He and The Holy Spirit are in a class apart from common righteous or godly people. Including Mohamad.

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 4:57am
The commonly accepted Christian meaning of 'the Comforter' is the Holy Spirit, which is God present within in man.

This is largely an academic, theological concept except in charismatic or Pentacostal churches in which Christians speak in tongues or prophesy.
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JerryMyers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 7:34am
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

The commonly accepted Christian meaning of 'the Comforter' is the Holy Spirit, which is God present within in man.

This is largely an academic, theological concept except in charismatic or Pentacostal churches in which Christians speak in tongues or prophesy.


Yes, David, the Holy Spirit is the reflection of God’s presence within a man whose main priority is to do the Will of God. The Spirit of God CANNOT be present in a man who never do the Will of God. In other words, the Holy Spirit or the Spirit of Truth is synonymous with those of piousness nature. Thus, when Jesus said “But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth” (John 16:13), he’s referring to the arrival of a man of piousness character, that is, a man with the Spirit of truth in him.

The concept of Trinity which was conceptualized long after Jesus’ departure, sees the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost as an independent person who is also a God.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2Acts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 2:12pm
Why do Muslims refer to the Bible to find something about Mohammed but at the same time accuse the Bible as corrupted? If the Bible was corrupted, why do they seek such a verse. They contradict themselves and just pick and choose what ever verses suit them. Muslims are desperate to find Mohamad in the Bible. But the fact is, he is not there !

Any way, how was Mohamad a "comforter"? He was a War Lord who lived by the sword, took women sex slaves and ordered his men to cut his enemies hands off and take their eyes out with hot nails ! No comfort there !


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peace maker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 April 2018 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

 
What do you meant by this?
 
So, no, Muhammad is not eternal or have a pre-existent life, BUT, he was the Comforter who God had sent to the world as promised by Jesus to his disciples.
 
Will he be with us forever?



What will be forever is not the person, BUT, the Spirit of God and the legacy and teaching of the said (another) Comforter, Muhammad, just as the true teachings of Jesus will be with us forever. Likewise, my dad passed away long ago, but he’s always be with me in spirit and in his sayings/guidance.
 
You do not understand what Jesus said the comforter is the spirit of truth who abide with us "forever"
can you see truth have anyone seen truth? define truth for me.
The Apostles of Jesus have received the spirit of truth on the day of pentecost, Did they received Muhammad?
The spirit of truth is the Holy spirit so do not be confused. 
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