IslamiCity.org Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Religion - Islam > Interfaith Dialogue
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Argument for God's Existence
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Argument for God's Existence

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Message
davidroemer View Drop Down
Starter.
Starter.
Avatar

Joined: 10 March 2018
Location: NY
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidroemer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2018 at 7:55pm
I quoted from the most widely used biology textbook in the US by biology majors in college. Are you being ironic? Do you understand why the quote is saying that human beings did not evolved from animals? Human beings did not evolved from animals because of the "mind-body" problem. The quote says that the mind-body problem is a philosophical problem, not a scientific one. Science does not address the question of why human beings have free will and the conscious knowledge of human beings, as opposed to the sense knowledge of animals. 
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Tim the plumber View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 30 September 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 805
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2018 at 12:53am
Originally posted by davidroemer davidroemer wrote:

I quoted from the most widely used biology textbook in the US by biology majors in college. Are you being ironic? Do you understand why the quote is saying that human beings did not evolved from animals? Human beings did not evolved from animals because of the "mind-body" problem. The quote says that the mind-body problem is a philosophical problem, not a scientific one. Science does not address the question of why human beings have free will and the conscious knowledge of human beings, as opposed to the sense knowledge of animals. 


I very much doubt that any biology textbook, other than one used in some sort of religious college, says that humans did not evolve from animals.

We have evolved from other animals. Our ancestors were less human than us.

There is a mountain of evidence to show this.

Which book did you quote from?

Back to Top
akthus View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 13 January 2018
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akthus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2018 at 1:18pm
Homo sapiens did not evolve from apes. They are a completely different species.
Just like a donkey is not a horse.
Back to Top
airmano View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 March 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 856
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2018 at 3:14pm
@David

Could you tell me the name (and possibly authors) of the biology textbook you mention ?


Airmano
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
Back to Top
davidroemer View Drop Down
Starter.
Starter.
Avatar

Joined: 10 March 2018
Location: NY
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidroemer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2018 at 7:57pm
The textbook I quoted from is Biology by Campbell and Reece. This is another quote that proves human beings did not evolved from animals:

Catholics could believe whatever science determined about the evolution of the human body, so long as they accepted that, at some time of his choosing, God had infused the soul into such a creature. I also knew that I had no problem with this statement, for whatever my private beliefs about souls, science cannot touch such a subject and therefore cannot be threatened by any theological position on such a legitimately and intrinsically religious issue. (13th paragraph, Stephen Jay Gould, Natural History, March 1997)

The reason you are confused about this matter is that practically all biologists from major secular universities think that human beings evolved from animals. But if you ask them about free will, they will say something either irrational (free will is an illusion) or dishonest (free will is an emergent property of the brain). 

That human beings have free will is not a scientific observation.  We know that we can move our hand any way we want. But if we lose our hand in an accident, we still continue to exist. Our body is something that we have. It raises the metaphysical question: What is the relationship between myself and my body? It is a metaphysical mystery, not a scientific mystery. Saying free will is an emergent property of the brain implies that it is a scientific mystery. It is a lie because there is an excellent track record for scientific questions. There is no such track record for metaphysics. There is only an argument for God's existence.  

Back to Top
Tim the plumber View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 30 September 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 805
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2018 at 2:22am
Originally posted by akthus akthus wrote:

Homo sapiens did not evolve from apes. They are a completely different species.
Just like a donkey is not a horse.


Donkeys and horses are clearly closely related. They can interbreed. The result is not it's self fertile but clearly the species gap betweeen donkeys and horses is not that big.

Chimpansees are more closely related to us humans than donkeys are to horses or zebras.

Back to Top
Tim the plumber View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 30 September 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 805
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2018 at 2:26am
Originally posted by davidroemer davidroemer wrote:

The textbook I quoted from is Biology by Campbell and Reece. This is another quote that proves human beings did not evolved from animals:

Catholics could believe whatever science determined about the evolution of the human body, so long as they accepted that, at some time of his choosing, God had infused the soul into such a creature. I also knew that I had no problem with this statement, for whatever my private beliefs about souls, science cannot touch such a subject and therefore cannot be threatened by any theological position on such a legitimately and intrinsically religious issue. (13th paragraph, Stephen Jay Gould, Natural History, March 1997)

The reason you are confused about this matter is that practically all biologists from major secular universities think that human beings evolved from animals. But if you ask them about free will, they will say something either irrational (free will is an illusion) or dishonest (free will is an emergent property of the brain). 

That human beings have free will is not a scientific observation.  We know that we can move our hand any way we want. But if we lose our hand in an accident, we still continue to exist. Our body is something that we have. It raises the metaphysical question: What is the relationship between myself and my body? It is a metaphysical mystery, not a scientific mystery. Saying free will is an emergent property of the brain implies that it is a scientific mystery. It is a lie because there is an excellent track record for scientific questions. There is no such track record for metaphysics. There is only an argument for God's existence.  



How exactly does your quote from the book say that evolution does not happen?

All it says is that the religious arguments are not part od the discussion of the book.

Back to Top
DavidC View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 September 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 2425
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2018 at 10:35am
Evolution is very useful in explaining varieties. It is much less useful in explaining the development of structures.

It is also much more useful in explaining why species become extinct than in explaining how new species develop.

Evolution is too often used as a dogma which explains everything. It is a scientific concept, and not to be mixed up in arguments inappropiate for science. It seems that many colleges have eliminated the requirement of a course in the philosophy of science from the B.S. degree and many new scientists have lost the connection between science and the rest of knowledge.
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.