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Challenge for Muslims

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debatedebate View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debatedebate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2018 at 9:42pm
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

@DebateDebate

Actually I'm impressed by your knowledge of details, are you a former Muslim ?


I'm from a mixed background & yes I do have Muslim relatives. I don't identify myself with any 'ism' but just continue exploring.

Originally posted by Dr. Aslam Dr. Aslam wrote:

This is what the verse 22:42 52 says
Yet whenever We sent forth any apostle or prophet before thee, and he was hoping   [that his warnings would be heeded], Satan would cast an asper­sion on his innermost aims:   but God renders null and void whatever aspersion Satan may cast; and God makes His messages clear in and by themselves   for God is all-knowing, wise


This is M Asad's translation. The one I gave is Mushin Khan. So your implying Asad is more accurate. Ok. Also you reject the gharaniq story even though it is accepted by Muslims and scholars for centuries. Ok now just have a look at the tafsir by the great Imam Al-Jalalayn (which you reject);

And We did not send before you any messenger rasūl — this is a prophet who has been commanded to deliver a Message — or prophet nabī — one who has not been commanded to deliver anything — but that when he recited the scripture Satan cast into his recitation what is not from the Qur’ān but which those to whom he the prophet had been sent would find pleasing. The Prophet s had during an assembly of the men of Quraysh after reciting the following verses from sūrat al-Najm Have you considered Lāt and ‘Uzzā? And Manāt the third one? 5319-20 added as a result of Satan casting them onto his tongue without his the Prophet’s being aware of it the following words ‘those are the high-flying cranes al-gharānīq al-‘ulā and indeed their intercession is to be hoped for’ and so they the men of Quraysh were thereby delighted. Gabriel however later informed him the Prophet of this that Satan had cast onto his tongue and he was grieved by it; but was subsequently comforted with this following verse that he might be reassured of God’s pleasure thereat God abrogates nullifies whatever Satan had cast then God confirms His revelations. And God is Knower of Satan’s casting of that which has been mentioned Wise in His enabling him Satan to do such things for He does whatever He will. (* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn Quran 22 52)

Now, read the following Authentic sunnah within the context of the above tafsir & Quran 53-19.
Did Satan managed to make the prophet to do something else too before Gabriel informed him what happened?

Narrated Ibn `Abbas:

The Prophet (ﷺ) performed a prostration when he finished reciting Surat-an-Najm, and all the Muslims and pagans and Jinns and human beings prostrated along with him.

USC-MSA web (English) reference           : Vol. 6, Book 60, Hadith 385  Sahih al-Bukhari » Book of Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an (Tafseer of the Prophet (pbuh))

Arabic reference              : Book 65, Hadith 4862

The Muslims have full faith in the prophet & would follow any of his act without question but why would the Pagans who reject Muhammad & Allah prostrate along if it is not to their gods
Lāt and ‘Uzzā?and Manāt.

Or this Sahih Al- Bukhari hadith is also fabricated? Otherwise please explain this hadith.
Thanks

Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

I am a Christian and agree with Dr. Aslam's attitude. The purpose of this board is to provide Islamic education, not to be a outlet for polemics. Christians are welcome guests, but the guest/host relationship should always be respected. Imagine yourself pouring tea for your fellow board members when posting.

There has always been a policy here to include scriptural references whenever possible. New members please take notice.


As long one is civil & provide the references for their comments , I don't think Muslims have any problem discussing it. Isn't it they believe Allah & the truth on their side? So why fear?
Ok, since you are a Christian here to get educated on Islam, maybe you would like to learn more on the following Quranic verse & Sunnah which touch on Christians. Regards

And with those who say: "Lo! we are Christians," We made a covenant, but they forgot a part of that whereof they were admonished. Therefor We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will inform them of their handiwork. (Quran 5 14)


Abu Burda reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying:

There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with as heavy sins as a mountain, and Allah would forgive them and He would place in their stead the Jews and the Christians. (As far as I think), Abu Raub said: I do not know as to who is in doubt. Abu Burda said: I narrated it to 'Umar b. 'Abd al-'Aziz, whereupon he said: Was it your father who narrated it to you from Allah's Apostle (ﷺ)? I said: Yes.

Reference           : Sahih Muslim 2767 d The Book of Repentance

In-book reference           : Book 50, Hadith 60

USC-MSA web (English) reference           : Book 37, Hadith 6668
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr. Aslam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2018 at 11:13pm
Peace,
You quoted a hadith and I would forward you my article on this subject that would give details of this and similar ahadith.

Best Regards,
Aslam Abdullah
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2018 at 12:22am
Re: 5:14 - This is an example of particular Christians behavior being used to make a point. The point of Quran 5 is how Muslims should behave, not a general scolding of Christians. Christians have flaws, and commenting on this is not offensive. Almost every preacher has a sermon on this subject.

The interesting part of 5:14 to me is that the enmity and hate are created by Allah. The bible refers to this process as God "hardening the heart". It is used in explaining Pharoh's behavior (Exodus) and atheism in general (Romans 1). God withdraws and leaves the individual to their own animal instincts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2018 at 4:53pm
Allah tells people to love each other, only among men there are out and violates the command of their Lord. Allah invites into salvation but some humans do not want to follow it.
However, it can not be separated from the provisions of Allah that mankind will be like that (sunnatullah), some of them are given hidayah (guidance), and some are not, so very lucky those who have been given hidayah by Allah.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Masihi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2018 at 11:35pm
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Re: 5:14 - This is an example of particular Christians behavior being used to make a point. The point of Quran 5 is how Muslims should behave, not a general scolding of Christians. Christians have flaws, and commenting on this is not offensive. Almost every preacher has a sermon on this subject.

The interesting part of 5:14 to me is that the enmity and hate are created by Allah. The bible refers to this process as God "hardening the heart". It is used in explaining Pharoh's behavior (Exodus) and atheism in general (Romans 1). God withdraws and leaves the individual to their own animal instincts.
The proving  of the point depends on the followers of Islam, I asked a question yet I received no basefull answer. Also another fun fact is that the original Hadithof Al Gharaniq had an isnaad going back all the way to Ibn Abbas and even now the broken pieces of the Isnaad leading back to Ibn Abbas can be seen in many sources aswell.
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr. Aslam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2018 at 6:06pm
Our understanding of the verse is different
Christianity divided itself into sects and Christians fought against each and grew in hostility and animosity of each other because they deviated from the genuine teachings of Jesus.
 Perhaps you did not read the response about hadith. There is an article on the subject and it will be up soon.

Best Regards,
Aslam Abdullah
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 March 2018 at 6:02am
Originally posted by Dr. Aslam Dr. Aslam wrote:

Our understanding of the verse is different
Christianity divided itself into sects and Christians fought against each and grew in hostility and animosity of each other because they deviated from the genuine teachings of Jesus.
<font size="1" color="#333333" face="Verdana"> Perhaps you did not read the response about hadith. There is an article on the subject and it will be up soon.


Per hadith (see Ling's biography) the Christian sects familiar to Muhummad were Nestorian and Ebionite. Most Christians today agree these early sects did have issues.

Qu'ran 5 teaches a similar but different monotheism to the pagans of the Quraysh. Criticism of the early Christian religion are fine points of definition and not the primary message. Would you agree with this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr. Aslam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 March 2018 at 9:33am
The Quran asks its believer to accept monotheism without assigning a son or son to God.
Best Regards,
Aslam Abdullah
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