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Ask me anything: Roman Catholic Edition

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ovibos View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ovibos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 March 2018 at 9:27pm
I'm just curious, I don't have any intention to argue or whatsoever,

1. About the Ten Commandments: Why does the Roman Catholic combine the first and the second commandment (of the Protestant version) into one commandment, but then break down the tenth commandment (of the Protestant version) into two different commandments? (by the way, in my opinion, You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.” seems to be one commandment, not two.

2. which OT version do you think is more reliable: the Septuagint or Masoretic Text?

3. Do you believe that there is salvation outside the Roman Catholic, e.g. Eastern Orthodox Church, Protestantism, Judaism, Islam?

4. What do you think of same-sex marriage? Are you pro or against it, and why?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NABA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2018 at 9:51pm
Peacemaker once again I repeat God cannot have son, because Allah is creator he is not in the need of means,in fact he is the source of all means,he does what he intends to do,once again I repeat Allah is one he is eternal he is neither born nor give birth there is nothing like him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luke6_37 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2018 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

@Luke

One of the major points our Muslim friends get excited about is trinity.

Would you be able to lay down in a couple of words (and preferably without too many bible citations) a concise definition of "Trinity" ?

Are you actually aware, that at the beginning of Christianity, Arianism - much closer to the Muslim point of view - was the predominant line in Europe ?


Thanx: Airmano

Arianism is nothing like the Muslim point of view - if anything, this heresy is closer to the Christological heresy the Qu'ran condemns. It was never accepted by orthodox Christians and clearly condemned by the Roman Catholic Church at the councils of Nicaea (325 AD) and Constantinople (381 AD)

Arius taught that the Logos was the first creation of YHWH in eternity past. This would make Christ a separate divine being, which violates the first article of faith that defines all three Abrahamic religions - that the Lord, our God is One. 

The Qur'an never directly refutes the doctrine of the Trinity. It appears to not even be aware of how it is dogmatically defined. The Qur'an refutes a belief in three divine beings: Father, Son and Mary. It also states that Jesus (despite his miraculous birth and sinless nature) was no more than a human prophet. Roman Catholics agree with the Qur'an that there is only one divine being, but there is no reason for us to accept it's claim that Jesus was merely a prophet. Everything that has been handed down directly to us from the first century by Scripture and Tradition supports the Christian doctrines of the Incarnation, Crucifixion and Resurrection.  The Qur'an coming out of left field to make other claims is simply not convincing in the least.

The Trinity is dogmatically defined as the one BEING of God shared by three distinct PERSONS: Source (Father), Logos (Son) & Pneuma (Holy Spirit).  I explain it to children like this, a rock is not like a human in the same way that a human is not like God. A rock has being, but no person. A human has being, and one person. God has being, and three persons.  Since we are talking about three different types of being, it makes no sense to insist they should all be the same with respect to person. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peace maker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2018 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by NABA NABA wrote:

Peacemaker once again I repeat God cannot have son, because Allah is creator he is not in the need of means,in fact he is the source of all means,he does what he intends to do,once again I repeat Allah is one he is eternal he is neither born nor give birth there is nothing like him.
Why can't He? God said what is impossible for humans is possible for God so you asume it is impossible for God to have a son why can't He a son are humans more privelaged than God?
 
The Quran is misleading you our Bible tells us the truth.
 
The title Son of God does not mean Jesus was literally born from God.The Bible does not teach a physical relationship between God and Mary,as Muslims sometimes charge.At the birth of Jesus,th angel told the virgin Mary:
 
Luke 1:30:35.
 
Do not be afraid,Mary, for you have found favour with God.And behold,you wil concieve in your womb and bear a son,and you shal call his name Jesus.He wil be great and will be called the Son of the Most High.
And of His kingdom there will be no end so His kingdom will be eternal.
 
Hebrews 1:8
But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
 
Revelation 11:15.
 
Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever."
 
God cannot or will not NABA is this your view of a almighty God who cannot?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peace maker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2018 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by NABA NABA wrote:

Peacemaker once again I repeat God cannot have son, because Allah is creator he is not in the need of means,in fact he is the source of all means,he does what he intends to do,once again I repeat Allah is one he is eternal he is neither born nor give birth there is nothing like him.
 
Hebrews 1:1-3
 
Previously, God had spoken to man through His prophets, but then He sent His own Son: “In the past God spoke to our forefathers by the prophets at many times and in various ways. But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son whom He has appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being, sustaining all things by His powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven”
 
This means in the past God has spoken to their forefaththers by means of prophets then in the last days He spoken to us by by His Son so everyone who decleared himself as a prophet after Jesus was false there was cannot be any prophet be after Jesus anymore end of story case closed and the rest is just a waste of time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luke6_37 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2018 at 6:07pm
Originally posted by ovibos ovibos wrote:

I'm just curious, I don't have any intention to argue or whatsoever,

1. About the Ten Commandments: Why does the Roman Catholic combine the first and the second commandment (of the Protestant version) into one commandment, but then break down the tenth commandment (of the Protestant version) into two different commandments? (by the way, in my opinion, <span style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">“</span><span style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that your neighbor’s.” seems to be one commandment, not two.</span>

2. which OT version do you think is more reliable: the Septuagint or Masoretic Text?

3. Do you believe that there is salvation outside the Roman Catholic, e.g. Eastern Orthodox Church, Protestantism, Judaism, Islam?

4. What do you think of same-sex marriage? Are you pro or against it, and why?




1. About the Commandments - Scripture states that they are a Decalogue, but does not explicitly number them, so there is only Tradition to rely upon for how to count them. Catholics believe that Saint Augustine rightly included the prohibition on creating graven images as part of, not separate from, the first commandment against any form of idolotry. It could not have meant a blanket prohibition on the creation of statues or images in general, because then God would have violated his own law by instructing the Israelites to place the images of two cherubim on the lid of the Ark of the Covenant. The numbering of the other Commandments then follows from that.

2. The Septuigint is far older (1,000 years) than the Masoretic text, and Greek is a better language for writing, because it contains vowels. Having said that, I think that where the two texts disagree about a word or phrase, a Biblical scholar would have other sources to consult - such as the Aramaic Targums, the Dead Sea Scrolls & the Latin Vulgate in order to resolve the issue. So it really isn't an issue of deciding just between the two.

3. Salvation means to be liberated from slavery. Moses brought salvation to the Israelites by liberating them from slavery in Egypt. By dying on the cross, Jesus brought salvation to all the nations by liberating all of humanity from slavery to sin and death. This is a gift (a.k.a., grace) offered to everyone - no strings attached. Once you accept it you are part of the Church. The Sacraments are outward physical signs of having received this grace, but God is not constrained by the Sacraments and bestows His grace where he pleases. You may not realize this while you are alive, but if you truly love God & love your neighbor you are saved, regardless of what religion you profess.

4) Matrimony is one of the seven sacraments in the Catholic Church. It restores the unity of the original Adam, before God split him into male and female, so that the procreative aspect of humanity can be unleashed. This is impossible with two people of the same gender. So while a same sex relationship may have a unitive function, it is not by definition a marriage, because there is no procreative aspect to it. I believe that same sex unions are a thing - and sometimes even a good thing, but they are not a marriage. Legally, however, it's easier to simply classify them as marriages and I don't see any reason to oppose that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2018 at 7:05pm
For a detailed explanation of Catholic thought, see http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01658a.htm

Thorough and accepted explanations of RC theology.
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luke6_37 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2018 at 7:35pm
Originally posted by NABA NABA wrote:

Peacemaker once again I repeat God cannot have son, because Allah is creator he is not in the need of means,in fact he is the source of all means,he does what he intends to do,once again I repeat Allah is one he is eternal he is neither born nor give birth there is nothing like him.


I am not sure what you mean by "in the need of means". Are you saying that as one eternal being, God cannot be the source of himself? The Father/Son metaphor for the relationship between the Creator (Source) and Logos (Word) is just a convention that made sense to early Christians, because it was a great way to describe someone who wasn't the same person as the Creator, but who had all the power & authority of God and did things only God could do. However, if this analogy gets in the way of your understanding of the relationship between the Creator (Father) & Logos (Word), think of it like the relationship between Allah & the Qu'ran if the Qu'ran was expressed in body language rather than Arabic, and could walk among us, healing the sick and feeding the hungry, etc.
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