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2:2 This scripture, no doubt ...

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MIAW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MIAW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2018 at 4:22am
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

[Quote]... So, Allah opened their chest. Seriously, is this the only "proof" you have to offer ?...

The 'opening of chest' here is not in the physical/literal sense; it simply means that Allah SWT guided them to accept the suggestion. The same idea is in these verses from Qur'an:

[39:22]
�£َفَمَنْ شَرَحَ اللَّهُ صَدْرَهُ لِلْإِسْلَامِ فَهُوَ عَلَى نُورٍ مِنْ رَبِّهِ فَوَيْلٌ لِلْقَاسِيَةِ قُلُوبُهُمْ مِنْ ذِكْرِ اللَّهِ �£ُولَئِكَ فِي ضَلَالٍ مُبِينٍ

Is one whose heart Allah has opened to Islam, so that he has received enlightenment from Allah, (no better than one hard-hearted)? Woe to those whose hearts are hardened against celebrating the praises of Allah! they are manifestly wandering (in error)!







[6:125]






Edited by MIAW - 04 March 2018 at 4:23am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2018 at 8:10am
Quote Airmano:
So, Allah opened their chest. Seriously, is this the only "proof" you have to offer ?...

Miaw:
The 'opening of chest' here is not in the physical/literal sense; it simply means that Allah SWT guided them to accept the suggestion.
 

 
I understood already, but apparently we have very different perceptions of what  "proof" really means.


Airmano


Edited by airmano - 04 March 2018 at 9:17am
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MIAW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2018 at 1:39am
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

... but apparently we have very different perceptions of what  "proof" really means.

Airmano,

I am not here to show you any 'proofs', or to prove anything to you. Also: No Muslim should have to (or try to) 'prove' anything to anybody. That is because 'presenting proofs and miracles' was all done by our Prophet Muhammad PBUH during his lifetime.

You see... during Prophet Muhammad PBUH's life, he was questioned and thoroughly scrutinized by many people, from various walks of life (including high-ranking religious authorities), on many occasions. Among these people, the most inquisitive and detailed questioners were Jewish Rabbis... as they were extremely learned in terms of religion and other 'sciences'.

You will find an example of one of these encounters here: http://https://abdurrahman.org/2014/01/27/jewsenmityjibril/
[if the link does not work, just copy and paste it in google]

One of my favorite people among these questioners is a Jewish Rabbi who then accepted and embraced  Islam upon hearing our Prophet's answers. His name was Abdullah ibn Salam.

His story is told in the above link, as well as here: http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_ibn_Salam
[if the link does not work, just copy and paste it in google]

Furthermore, Allah SWT has Told us in the Holy Qur'an about people who would not accept the Truth, no matter how many 'Proofs' you present them with:

Qur'an [17:89]

{89} وَلَقَدْ صَرَّفْنَا لِلنَّاسِ فِي هَذَا الْقُرْآنِ مِنْ كُلِّ مَثَلٍ فَ�£َبَى �£َكْثَرُ النَّاسِ إِلَّا كُفُورًا

And We have explained to man, in this Qur-an, every kind of similitude: yet the greater part of men refuse (to receive it) except with ingratitude!

{90} وَقَالُوا لَنْ نُؤْمِنَ لَكَ حَتَّى تَفْجُرَ لَنَا مِنَ الْ�£َرْضِ يَنْبُوعًا

They say: "We shall not believe in thee, until thou cause a spring to gush forth for us from the earth,

{91} �£َوْ تَكُونَ لَكَ جَنَّةٌ مِنْ نَخِيلٍ وَعِنَبٍ فَتُفَجِّرَ الْ�£َنْهَارَ خِلَالَهَا تَفْجِيرًا

"Or (until) thou have a garden of date trees and vines, and cause rivers to gush forth in their midst, carrying abundant water,

{92} �£َوْ تُسْقِطَ السَّمَاءَ كَمَا زَعَمْتَ عَلَيْنَا كِسَفًا �£َوْ تَ�£ْتِيَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْمَلَائِكَةِ قَبِيلًا

"Or thou cause the sky to fall in pieces, as thou sayest (will happen), against us, or thou bring Allah and the angels before (us) face to face;

{93} �£َوْ يَكُونَ لَكَ بَيْتٌ مِنْ زُخْرُفٍ �£َوْ تَرْقَى فِي السَّمَاءِ وَلَنْ نُؤْمِنَ لِرُقِيِّكَ حَتَّى تُنَزِّلَ عَلَيْنَا كِتَابًا نَقْرَؤُهُ قُلْ سُبْحَانَ رَبِّي هَلْ كُنْتُ إِلَّا بَشَرًا رَسُولًا

"Or thou have a house adorned with gold, or thou mount a ladder right into the skies. No, we shall not even believe in thy mounting until thou send down to us a book that we can read." Say: "Glory to my Lord! am I aught but a man, a Messenger?"

{94} وَمَا مَنَعَ النَّاسَ �£َنْ يُؤْمِنُوا إِذْ جَاءَهُمُ الْهُدَى إِلَّا �£َنْ قَالُوا �£َبَعَثَ اللَّهُ بَشَرًا رَسُولًا

What kept men back from Belief when Guidance came to them, was nothing but this: they said, "Has Allah sent a man (like us) to be (His) Messenger?"

{95} قُلْ لَوْ كَانَ فِي الْ�£َرْضِ مَلَائِكَةٌ يَمْشُونَ مُطْمَئِنِّينَ لَنَزَّلْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ مَلَكًا رَسُولًا

Say: "If there were settled, on earth, angels walking about in peace and quiet, We should certainly have sent them down from the heavens an angel for a Messenger."

{96} قُلْ كَفَى بِاللَّهِ شَهِيدًا بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَكُمْ إِنَّهُ كَانَ بِعِبَادِهِ خَبِيرًا بَصِيرًا

Say: "Enough is Allah for a witness between me and you: for He is well-acquainted with His servants, and He sees (all things)."



This is why I am not here to show any proofs or prove anything, but (in my very limited capacity and knowledge) to help 'dispel' some of the misconceptions and address some misinformed accusations about Islam.

MIAW



Edited by MIAW - 08 March 2018 at 1:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2018 at 1:09pm
Hm,

many surahs no answers.
That Muhammad (sorry "Allah") was very good in describing how smashing believers and how dreadful disbelievers are is nothing new. Repeating this a hundred times doesn't make it more relevant though.

But it would be really new if you could finally cite any surahs were Mohamed/Allah gave the explicit order to compile a book called Quran. 


Airmano


Edited by airmano - 07 March 2018 at 1:51pm
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MIAW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2018 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

...if you could finally cite any surahs were Mohamed/Allah gave the explicit order to compile a book called Quran.

Look at my 2nd post in the previous page of this thread, I have already answered this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2018 at 1:48pm
@Miaw

So I think we can conclude that Allah never gave the explicit order to compile a book.

That he pushed and "opened the heart of"  Muhammad's successors  to do so
is laudable but doesn't take away the worrying point that they may have done it for quite different reasons.


Airmano


Edited by airmano - 08 March 2018 at 1:49pm
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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