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What proof is there that Muhammad was a p
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MIAW View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:


Odd, I see a lot of Muslims who want the whole world to be Islamic.

@Tim,

Nice statement!... Of course the only problem with this statement is that: It's a bit 'rich' coming from you, because You came to us, we didn't come to you... i.e. you came to an Islamic forum trying to 'convince' us of YOUR ideology (to give up religion altogether)... we didn't come to YOUR forum to invite you to anything... Tongue

But... having said this (and since you are here)...

I would like you to have a look at some of the many, many verses in the Qur'an that describe (some in great detail) what will happen in the Afterlife to those who reject God, Religion (particularly Islam), The Day Of Judgement... etc. Here is an example ...

[74:(38-49)]

{38} كُلُّ نَفْسٍ بِمَا كَسَبَتْ رَهِينَةٌ

Every soul will be (held) in pledge for its deeds.

{39} إِلَّا �£َصْحَابَ الْيَمِينِ

Except the Companions of the Right Hand,

{40} فِي جَنَّاتٍ يَتَسَاءَلُونَ

(They will be) in Gardens (of Delight); they will question each other,

{41} عَنِ الْمُجْرِمِينَ

And (ask) of the Sinners:

{42} مَا سَلَكَكُمْ فِي سَقَرَ

"What led you into Hell-Fire?"

{43} قَالُوا لَمْ نَكُ مِنَ الْمُصَلِّينَ

They will say, "We were not of those who prayed;

{44} وَلَمْ نَكُ نُطْعِمُ الْمِسْكِينَ

"Nor were we of those who fed the indigent;

{45} وَكُنَّا نَخُوضُ مَعَ الْخَائِضِينَ

"But we used to talk vanities with vain talkers;

{46} وَكُنَّا نُكَذِّبُ بِيَوْمِ الدِّينِ

"And we used to deny the Day of Judgment,

{47} حَتَّى �£َتَانَا الْيَقِينُ

"Until there came to us (the Hour) that is certain."

{48} فَمَا تَنْفَعُهُمْ شَفَاعَةُ الشَّافِعِينَ

Then will no intercession of (any) intercessors profit them.

{49} فَمَا لَهُمْ عَنِ التَّذْكِرَةِ مُعْرِضِينَ

Then what is the matter with them that they turn away from admonition?










Seriously, I do have other examples from the Qur'an if you want to have a look.

MIAW















Edited by MIAW - 01 March 2018 at 1:37am
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asep garut View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

Quote Nobody is asking you to care about Prophet Muhammad PBUH and his teachings...


Odd, I see a lot of Muslims who want the whole world to be Islamic.

I want to straighten out here that Muslims do not want the whole world to be Islamic, because it would be violate God's decrees.
Perhaps what you see now that Muslims are getting more in this world that is because of their desire to become Muslims and also God's will.


I see the religion of Islam being deeply threatened by the modern world. I see the backlash against the "logic" of it being expressed in many forms, ISIS to the attitude of Islamic posters here to the resistance of Islamic communities to intergrate with wider western society in western nations.

I see this as the last gasp of the religion before it becomes as central to society in Islamic hearts as christianity is to the societies of the West. A tradition and a refuge for those who just can't cope with personal responisibility.

This process is being slowed by the impact of Saudi money from oil. Once the world moves on from the age of oil then Islam will be the same as Hinduism. A quaint tradition.

Tim the plumber,

I agree with you that "Islam is deeply threatened by the modern world" and even today Islam is facing various forms of slanders, and from those slanders as if Islam is a radical or violent teaching.

Personally, I see the attitude and actions of ISIS is not in accordance with the teachings of Islam but as if in the name of Islam, this is one that makes bad image of Islam in the eyes of the world, and it seems there's a conspiracy for political gain, even until today, I still doubt who is the real Al Baghdadi (ISIS leader).

Sorry, Islam is not the same as Hinduism as you say. Verily Allah and Prophet Muhammad not only ordered to seek the knowledge of the Hereafter but also the world of science as in His word and some Hadîth saheeh.
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Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:


@Tim
I would like you to have a look at some of the many, many verses in the Qur'an that describe (some in great detail) what will happen in the Afterlife to those who reject God, Religion (particularly Islam), The Day Of Judgement... etc. Here is an example ...


Dear Tim, be afraid, I mean really afraid on whats in store for you for rejecting God..(click on the tafsir by Ibn Abbas, cousin of the last messenger)

Then into a chain whose length is seventy cubits insert him (Quran 69 32)

http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=69&tAyahNo=32&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2
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airmano View Drop Down
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Seems that the Christian Iron Maiden is a mere relaxing Jacouzzi compared to these (eternal) medieval methods of torture.


As they say: Eternity is quite long, especially towards the end !


 Airmano
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Originally posted by debatedebate debatedebate wrote:

Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:


@Tim
I would like you to have a look at some of the many, many verses in the Qur'an that describe (some in great detail) what will happen in the Afterlife to those who reject God, Religion (particularly Islam), The Day Of Judgement... etc. Here is an example ...


Dear Tim, be afraid, I mean really afraid on whats in store for you for rejecting God..(click on the tafsir by Ibn Abbas, cousin of the last messenger)

Then into a chain whose length is seventy cubits insert him (Quran 69 32)

http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=69&tAyahNo=32&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2


So living a good honourable life, being honest and true etc are not good enough for this all powerful great god then.

Well, you can understand why I am not that impressed with him can't you?
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ovibos View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:


So living a good honourable life, being honest and true etc are not good enough for this all powerful great god then.

Yes, if you do good deeds but you don't believe in the One True God, then your deeds will not bring you to the heaven.

Say, [O Muhammad], "Shall we [believers] inform you of the greatest losers as to [their] deeds? [They are] those whose effort is lost in worldly life, while they think that they are doing well in work." Those are the ones who disbelieve in the verses of their Lord and in [their] meeting Him, so their deeds have become worthless; and We will not assign to them on the Day of Resurrection any importance.(Q 18:103-105)

If you ask this to the Jews or to the Noahides, I think their answer will be the same.

If you do good deeds because you think it's good by your own intelligence, not because God told you to do so, then your deeds are in vain. Sorry.

After all, it's Him the sole cause why we are here on earth.
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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Originally posted by ovibos ovibos wrote:

Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:


So living a good honourable life, being honest and true etc are not good enough for this all powerful great god then.

Yes, if you do good deeds but you don't believe in the One True God, then your deeds will not bring you to the heaven.

Say, [O Muhammad], "Shall we [believers] inform you of the greatest losers as to [their] deeds? [They are] those whose effort is lost in worldly life, while they think that they are doing well in work." Those are the ones who disbelieve in the verses of their Lord and in [their] meeting Him, so their deeds have become worthless; and We will not assign to them on the Day of Resurrection any importance.(Q 18:103-105)

If you ask this to the Jews or to the Noahides, I think their answer will be the same.

If you do good deeds because you think it's good by your own intelligence, not because God told you to do so, then your deeds are in vain. Sorry.

After all, it's Him the sole cause why we are here on earth.


Can you see why I'll pass on that then?
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Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:



Can you see why I'll pass on that then?

I get an impression that you want a god like "god" in Buddhism (if there's a god in Buddhism).
According to Buddhism: If you do good deeds in this life, then you will get good karma in your next life. 

But the Abrahamic religions (especially Islam and Judaism) are different from Buddhism.
The basic tenet in Islam is to believe in One God, the Creator of Heaven and Earth.


Quote Many people are comfortable with the idea of "God is love". They expect God to serve them.
God is expected to bless them with health, prosperity, and answer them in their need - regardless of how they observe His Laws.
As God patiently waits for them to wake up, giving them decades of free choice in peace and prosperity, they take this for a sign that all is well and they have done what they are required to do.
And when God "fails" to perform what they expect and terrible hardship strikes, they either:
(1) reject religion
(2) blame God
(3) blame anything or anyone else

source: Guide for the Noahides

How can you get good rewards in the next life if you reject the most fundamental foundation in the religion, that is to believe in the One God?
What do you got to lose if you believe in God?
To quote Blaise Pascal, "If you gain, you gain all. If you lose, you lose nothing. So, wager then without hesitation, that He exists"
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