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DavidC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2018 at 9:18am
Very interesting, Asep. I do not read Arabic, but this has some similarities to linguistic features in Hebrew. Greek is easier, but still requires great care in translation. Even first year students are often amazed at the meaning unlocked when theybstart to read in the original languages.

One thing about Christian scriptures is they must often be read aloud for the full meaning to come through. Partially this is because our Greek scriptures in particular have no sentences or punctuation so meaning can vary with whatever emphasis is provided by the reader.

There is also the idea of reading aloud as giving form to thought. What are your reflections on this regarding Qúran? Considering the way the Qúran was revealed, I expect this to be more important in Islam but I have never heard a Muslim speak of it.
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asep garut View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2018 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

There is also the idea of reading aloud as giving form to thought. What are your reflections on this regarding Qúran? Considering the way the Qúran was revealed, I expect this to be more important in Islam but I have never heard a Muslim speak of it.

DavidC,

My reflection on the Qur'an may be different from other Muslims or it may be the same, but my personal opinion that should be the thought of the Quran is how we understand the verses or what the essence must be obtained so that it can be implemented into the daily actions such as:

1.    Being forgiving person, even if there is someone who hurt our heart, but does not facilitate evil to master let alone destroy us.

2.    Be honest and courageous to tell the truth even though it is difficult and hard to express.

3.    Do good to all human beings without distinguish tribe, nation, religion, ect except those relating to aqidah and syari'at.

4.    Keeping the faith, it means to worship Allah according to His command, and to follow the worship ways of the Prophet Muhammad.

5.    Humble to anyone but not forgetting self-esteem.

6.    Obligatory preaching religion, but must be in a good and wise way.

7.    Can claim personal rights, but not interfere with the rights of others, ect.

Then, the voice in reciting the Quran sometimes must be heard by environment but it is not necessarily too loud, but quite heard by the surrounding environment, such as the time call to shalah (prayer) mandatory 5 times, the voice of the prayer imam, ect, because besides as a sign of time to worship Allah, also as a syi'ar or da'wah.

Then, reading the Quran which is often held in the mosques with hardened voice, it depends on the situation and condition, do not let it disturb the rights and peace of others around us, except in certain events that have previously been informed to the community, so not every voice in reading the Quran should be hardened.

In addition, Allah says that the Qur'an is revealed to all human beings who wish to obtain His mercy and compassion for both in the world and the Hereafter, and the Qur'an is revealed not only for the middle east people, western or eastern, but to anyone who believes to Allah and the Prophet Muhammad, and to keep His commandments, he will gain good fortune from Allah.

Asep Garut.

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MIAW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MIAW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2018 at 1:16am
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

... There is also the idea of reading aloud as giving form to thought. What are your reflections on this regarding Qúran? Considering the way the Qúran was revealed, I expect this to be more important in Islam but I have never heard a Muslim speak of it.


Hi David,
I don't know if this is relevant to this discussion, but I think that the best way to read the Qur'an is how we were shown how to read it in the Qur'an itself:

[73:4] ...Or a little more; and recite the Qur-an in slow, measured rhythmic tones.




Edited by MIAW - 19 January 2018 at 1:16am
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Peace maker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peace maker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2018 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:




That Allah has no son is further proof that He is not the God of the Bible, who definitely has a Son, as both the Old and New Testaments declare. Psalms 2 says, "Kiss the Son." Referring to the God of the Bible, Solomon says, "What is his son's name...?" (Proverbs 30:4). The angel Gabriel, whom Islam claims to honor, told the virgin Mary (Islam accepts the virgin birth of Jesus), " And, behold, thou shalt...bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be...called the Son of the Highest ...the Son of God...and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David..." (Luke 1:31-35). That throne is in Jerusalem, not in Mecca.

Long Long very long before Muhammad's time.

Allah had three others who were Allah's daughters, al-Uzza, al-Lat, and Manah
Thus was Allah the pagans worshipped at the Kabaa with his three daughters quiet a monotheistic religion.

What was also so ironic was that Muhammad's grandpa's name was Abd allah which means slave of Allah strange.




Edited by icforumadmin - 23 January 2018 at 9:00pm
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airmano View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 January 2018 at 9:13am
@Asep

May be it slipped off your radar screen...

Can you try to take position to my comment on page 2 of this thread ?


Thanx: Airmano

Edited by airmano - 21 January 2018 at 9:14am
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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asep garut View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2018 at 8:55pm
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

@Asep,

Well, looking up your sentence "“Inna(hu) lakum ‘aduwwum mubina” I guess that this is from Q 2/168 (Al Baqarah).

Corpus Quran finds correctly Satan in this verse (168).

The word you refer to: "Innahu" seems to mean "indeed he". The critical word is the one in front which is correctly translated as Satan. The "he" in the english translation of "indeed he" refers obviously to Satan.
So no need for any deeper analysis or knowledge of the Quran to conclude that this sentence does indeed contain "Satan" (one time).

Could it be that -in your logic- you count the word "Satan" twice in this sentence (1 "Satan" + 1 "he") ?

Looking for "الشَّيْطَانُ" (shaitan) in corpus quran yields 68 (primary) entries (so no "he's" counted), again far from the 88 you claim.

So for the moment I am still not impressed by this "miracle"


Airmano

Airmano,

In deciphering the word devil doesn't mean to be written exactly like "devil" or "الشيطان" but in the implicit sense too, that's what I use. not only you, many Islamic scientists who deepen it, but the result is not necessarily the same.

You said: “Could it be that -in your logic- you count the word "Satan" twice in this sentence (1 "Satan" + 1 "he") ?”

Yes, one of them is like that.

The following is the word of Allah that backgrounds me in calculating:

“And indeed We have set forth for mankind, in this Qur’an every kind of parable. But if you (O Muhammad) bring to them any sign or proof (as an evidence for the truth of your Prophethood), the disbelievers are sure to say: ‘You follow nothing but falsehood, and magic.” (30:58)

And my second attempt is to pray in every last prostration when praying tahajjud:

 “Ya Allah, Ya ‘Alimu, a’limna ma la na’lam. Ameen”

(O Allah, the Most Knowing, give me knowledge of what I don't know. ameen.)

And with the permission of Allah, it will open my eyesight, both my eyes and my spiritual eyes.

That's the keys I use.


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asep garut View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2018 at 11:48pm
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:




That Allah has no son is further proof that He is not the God of the Bible, who definitely has a Son, as both the Old and New Testaments declare. Psalms 2 says, "Kiss the Son." Referring to the God of the Bible, Solomon says, "What is his son's name...?" (Proverbs 30:4). The angel Gabriel, whom Islam claims to honor, told the virgin Mary (Islam accepts the virgin birth of Jesus), " And, behold, thou shalt...bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be...called the Son of the Highest ...the Son of God...and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David..." (Luke 1:31-35). That throne is in Jerusalem, not in Mecca.

Long Long very long before Muhammad's time.

Allah had three others who were Allah's daughters, al-Uzza, al-Lat, and Manah
Thus was Allah the pagans worshipped at the Kabaa with his three daughters quiet a monotheistic religion.

What was also so ironic was that Muhammad's grandpa's name was Abd allah which means slave of Allah strange.



Peace maker,

If you believe that God has a son, and believes in both the Old and New Testaments declare, that's your belief, and that's your choice, but for Muslims is different, God is one, as the word of Allah in Qur'an 112: 1-4, another verse is the Qur'an 21:92.

In Islam, al-Uzza, al-Lat, and Manah are good people, but because of the human beings natures that tends to adore someone with exaggeration, then when they die it is considered the children of God.

In the teachings of Islam, if God has children then chances are also will have grandchildren and so on.

Then about the throne in Jerusalem, it is true because there is the throne of the Prophet David and Prophet Solomon, perhaps here should be able to distinguish between the throne (identical with wealth) with the grace and protection of God.

Ka'ba is not actually an idols worshiped by Muslims, but a place to unite the direction of Muslims when praying.

Indeed in Mecca and Medina there is no throne like the relics of Prophet David and Prophet Solomon, but Mecca and Medina are two places which is blessed and protected by Allah including from the onslaught of dajjal and his troops, while Jerusalem and all other places in this world will be trampled by dajjal.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peace maker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2018 at 7:33am
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:


Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:




That Allah has no son is further proof that He is not the God of the Bible, who definitely has a Son, as both the Old and New Testaments declare. Psalms 2 says, "Kiss the Son." Referring to the God of the Bible, Solomon says, "What is his son's name...?" (Proverbs 30:4). The angel Gabriel, whom Islam claims to honor, told the virgin Mary (Islam accepts the virgin birth of Jesus), " And, behold, thou shalt...bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be...called the Son of the Highest ...the Son of God...and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David..." (Luke 1:31-35). That throne is in Jerusalem, not in Mecca.

Long Long very long before Muhammad's time.

Allah had three others who were Allah's daughters, al-Uzza, al-Lat, and Manah
Thus was Allah the pagans worshipped at the Kabaa with his three daughters quiet a monotheistic religion.

What was also so ironic was that Muhammad's grandpa's name was Abd allah which means slave of Allah strange.



Peace maker,

If you believe that God has a son, and believes in both the Old and New Testaments declare, that's your
belief, and that's your choice, but for Muslims is different, God is one, as
the word of Allah in Qur'an 112: 1-4, another verse is the Qur'an 21:92.

In Islam, al-Uzza, al-Lat, and Manah are good people, but because of the human beings natures that
tends to adore someone with exaggeration, then when they die it is considered the children of God.

In the teachings of Islam, if God has children then chances are also will have grandchildren and so
on.

Then about the throne in Jerusalem, it is true because there is the throne of the Prophet David and Prophet Solomon, perhaps here should be able to distinguish between the throne
(identical with wealth) with the grace and protection of God.
Ka'ba is not actually an idols worshiped by Muslims, but a place to unite the direction of Muslims when praying.</span>



Indeed in Mecca and Medina there is no throne like the relics of Prophet David and Prophet
Solomon, but Mecca and Medina are two places which is blessed and protected by
Allah including from the onslaught of dajjal and his troops, while Jerusalem and
all other places in this world will be trampled by dajjal



In Islam, al-Uzza,al-Lat, and Manah are good people, but because of the human beings natures that tends to adore someone with exaggeration, then when they die it is considered the children of God.

You say good people in fact historical evidence declared that they were daughters of Allah three imaginary idols sand stone soulless idols and you said they are good people.
Allah will not protected you from the onslaught dajjal cause that was a fairy tale story which muslims solemely accepted as a revelation of Allah so there will not be any dajjal like the so called Mahdi the muslim Messiah which is a myth.

Edited by icforumadmin - 31 January 2018 at 9:34pm
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