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Peace maker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peace maker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2018 at 1:21pm
The Quran was not from Angel Gabriel cause Muhammad didn't even know it was Gabriel angels do not give there names in the first place his wife and his cousin made him belief that he perhaps have seen Gabreal,Why not Micheal or Rapheal and Oreal?
His cousin Waraqah was familiar with jewis and christian scriptures and convinced Muhammad that his so called revelation was from God and he said that Allah send Gabriel the same as Moses but in fact God spoken to Moses personally!the same as Jesus! thank you

Jesus said to him, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (Joh 14:6)
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." (Act 4:12)

To say that all faiths leads to the same god is a false statement that many people make for different religions worship different gods.
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DavidC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2018 at 2:46pm
Thank you, Asep. I am always interested in methods of reading with a deeper understanding.
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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airmano View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2018 at 11:38am
@Asep
Quote Maybe the way you count is a bit different from me, the method I use not only calculate the original word "malaikah", but using the science of tools, which is a science commonly called "nahu-sharaf" it is a tool to uncover each word in the Qur'an.

Some Muslim scientists also vary a lot in calculating it, but that's the calculation from me, and even there are still some other miracles that I find.


This means that there are many ways to count the word "angel" and they all come to a different result.
Could it be that you adapted your way of counting such that it just matches the expected result ?

Since there are much less than your mentioned 88 "devils" in the Corpus Quran search, can I ask you to give me two or three examples where your translation(s) yield "devil" but not the Corpus Quran ?.
I'd like to see the (different) meaning(s) of the word "devil" they give in Corpus Quran.


Thanks: Hermann

Edited by airmano - 06 January 2018 at 11:45am
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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asep garut View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2018 at 7:00pm

Peace Maker,

It is true that the Quran is not from Gabriel but from Allah conveyed through Gabriel. All human beings have different understanding in religion, but in the understanding of the people of Islam that the Prophet Muhammad is the successor of the monotheistic teachings (Tawheed) of the previous Apostles that there is no God who is to be worshiped besides Allah. That is the understanding for Muslims.

"Truly, this monotheistic religion (Tawheed) is your religion, the one religion, and I am your Lord, so worship Me" (Al Anbiya 21:92)

“Say (O Muhammad), He is Allah, (the) One. Allah the self-sufficient master, whom all creatures need, He begets not, nor was He begotten. And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him.” (Al Ikhlas 112:1-4)

That is the understanding for Muslims.

Asep Garut

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2018 at 7:02pm
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Thank you, Asep. I am always interested in methods of reading with a deeper understanding.

David C,

I am still trying to get the nahu-sharaf in English, or maybe you can meet a Muslim scholar in your Country who can give you the book that has been translated into English. But I still will try to get it.

Thank you David for your desire in searching the meaning of reading the Qur'an more deeply.

Asep Garut

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2018 at 7:06pm
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

@Asep
[Quote]
This means that there are many ways to count the word "angel" and they all come to a different result.
Could it be that you adapted your way of counting such that it just matches the expected result ?

Since there are much less than your mentioned 88 "devils" in the Corpus Quran search, can I ask you to give me two or three examples where your translation(s) yield "devil" but not the Corpus Quran ?.
I'd like to see the (different) meaning(s) of the word "devil" they give in Corpus Quran.

Thanks: Hermann


Airmano,

I did not count it to match what I expected, for example:

“Inna(hu) lakum ‘aduwwum mubina”

The word (hu) has many meanings, but in that sentence it means devil, because it follows the meaning of the previous sentence. quite frankly, if I explain in detail in this forum it will take a long time and have to open the quran together in order to explain it, from where does the word come from ?, what is the relation of such word with the word or sentence before and after it, etc.

Asep Garut



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airmano View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2018 at 2:15pm
@Asep,

Well, looking up your sentence "“Inna(hu) lakum ‘aduwwum mubina” I guess that this is from Q 2/168 (Al Baqarah).

Corpus Quran finds correctly Satan in this verse (168).

The word you refer to: "Innahu" seems to mean "indeed he". The critical word is the one in front which is correctly translated as Satan. The "he" in the english translation of "indeed he" refers obviously to Satan.
So no need for any deeper analysis or knowledge of the Quran to conclude that this sentence does indeed contain "Satan" (one time).

Could it be that -in your logic- you count the word "Satan" twice in this sentence (1 "Satan" + 1 "he") ?

Looking for "الشَّيْطَانُ" (shaitan) in corpus quran yields 68 (primary) entries (so no "he's" counted), again far from the 88 you claim.

So for the moment I am still not impressed by this "miracle"


Airmano


Edited by airmano - 12 January 2018 at 7:26am
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2018 at 7:46pm
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Thank you, Asep. I am always interested in methods of reading with a deeper understanding.

David C,

Before I found Nahwu-Sharaf Book in English translation, for a while I would like to give you a few examples of Nahwu-Sharaf that I made myself, hopefully you will gain a little understanding.

Understanding:

Nahwu is a science that studies about the position of words in sentences and harakat (sign) at the end of syllable or sentence, either that has changed (i'rab) or still in a state of permanence (bina). The rules by which the laws of the end of Arabic words are found in the compiled state.

 

It is also a science that shows us how to combine nouns (ismun), verbs (fi'lun), or letters (harfun) to form useful sentences (number of mufidah) also to know the state (i'rab) the last letter of a word. Or in another sense that Nahwu is the Arabic rules of knowing the form of words and circumstances when it is still a word (Mufrod) or when it is composed (Murokkab). Included in the discussion of Sharaf, because Sharaf is part of Nahwu science, which emphasizes the discussion of the form of the word and its condition when it's still a word (mufrod).

Aim:

The purpose of studying the science of nahwu is to keep an error speech in pronunciation of Arabic pronunciation and to understand the Qur'an and the hadith of the Prophet Muhammad with correct understanding.

Example:

 جَاءَ رَجُلٌ  : A man has come

The word  رَجُلٌ   is marked (harokat) dhommatain (ٌ ) at the end of the syllable because of its position as subject.

 رَأَيْتُ رَجُلًا : I see a man

The word  رَجُلً   is marked (harokat) fathatain (ً  ) at the end of the syllable because of its position as an object.

 

مَرَرْتُ بِرَجُلٍ : I met a man

The word رَجُلٍ is marked (harokat) kasrotain (ً  ) at the end of the syllable because it is preceded by the letter ب

Sharaf is the science of rules to know the formation and change of a word due to addition or subtraction, for example:

  عَلِمَ يَعْلَمُ عِلْمًا عَالِمٌ مَعْلُوْمٌ اَعْلَمْ لَا تَعْلَمْ مَعْلَمٌ مِعْلَامٌ

For those who master such knowledge he will usually know how special the Qur'an is, because the grammar used in the Qur'an is not all the same as in daily Arabic conversation.

Asep Garut

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