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asep garut View Drop Down
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Points: 366 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2018 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

@Asep, Peacemaker

I'm always surprised about the confidence Muslims put into the Hadiths. For an outsider they look like the magician who pulls the (white) rabbit out of his hat in case of need.
That there is no "canonisation" or separation of good and bad Hadith's speaks already for itself. Where things get however somewhat ridiculous is when Christians get accused of "forging the bible" whereas the Hadiths are 'venerated' despite the fact that they have been compiled decennies if not centuries after Muhammad's death. Needless to say that the glorification procedure around the prophet had all the necessary time in the world to unfold in order to produce what we call the Hadiths nowadays.

It is highly enlightening to read other historical texts about other ancient kings and prophets to understand that the contemporary and post mortem comments of the respective supporters should be read with a Kilo of salt.    


Airmano

Airmano,

Not all Muslims behave as you said, for example myself, When I read a hadith, I have to search first about the truth of that hadith, because I will only accept and follow the shahih (healthy) hadith, and I believe that not all hadiths come from the Prophet Muhammad.
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airmano View Drop Down
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Quote Asep
Not all Muslims behave as you said, for example myself, When I read a hadith, I have to search first about the truth of that hadith, because I will only accept and follow the shahih (healthy) hadith, and I believe that not all hadiths come from the Prophet Muhammad.


The problem with this is that people will "choose whatever they like" from the Hadith collection. Or, to be more precise, declare "as being 'true' [only] what, quite literally, suits their book"

For people outside Islam this is often -and in my eyes rightly so- perceived as a shell game.
In this context it also fits that there have been no serious attempts in the Muslim world to "canonize" the Hadiths and to separate "the good from the bad ones", simply because it would take a major degree of freedom away.

The prize is however a severe loss of credibility since "a truth" that can be altered at wish can't be "the truth" anymore.



Airmano


Edited by airmano - 17 February 2018 at 2:23am
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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momo25 View Drop Down
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hello i'm a new member here. can i ask all of you... how can all of you be so brave to even think about Dajjal? can you share how to do it?.

honestly, everytime i remember dajjal i got terrified. these feelings really make me unstable and just want to give up my life. suicide often come to my mind because i really am scared.

can anyone please help me? soon i will have to do exam for my graduation from high school and because of these feelings i can't even focus in anything. 

i really don't know what to do.. please help meCryCryCry
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asep garut View Drop Down
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Points: 366 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2018 at 8:39pm
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

Quote Asep
Not all Muslims behave as you said, for example myself, When I read a hadith, I have to search first about the truth of that hadith, because I will only accept and follow the shahih (healthy) hadith, and I believe that not all hadiths come from the Prophet Muhammad.


The problem with this is that people will "choose whatever they like" from the Hadith collection. Or, to be more precise, declare "as being 'true' [only] what, quite literally, suits their book"

For people outside Islam this is often -and in my eyes rightly so- perceived as a shell game.
In this context it also fits that there have been no serious attempts in the Muslim world to "canonize" the Hadiths and to separate "the good from the bad ones", simply because it would take a major degree of freedom away.

The prize is however a severe loss of credibility since "a truth" that can be altered at wish can't be "the truth" anymore.



Airmano

Airmano,

If anyone would "choose whatever they like from the Hadith collection", it is his choice, we can not force them to follow us, but all Muslims should follow all what God has commanded and to forsake what His forbids.

In connection with the hadith, it will be different from the Qur'an where the hadith is not all must be accepted because there are the sahih (valid/healthy) hadith and the maudhu (false) hadith, while all of the verses in the Qur'an must be accepted.
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asep garut View Drop Down
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Points: 366 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2018 at 8:41pm
Originally posted by momo25 momo25 wrote:

hello i'm a new member here. can i ask all of you... how can all of you be so brave to even think about Dajjal? can you share how to do it?.

honestly, everytime i remember dajjal i got terrified. these feelings really make me unstable and just want to give up my life. suicide often come to my mind because i really am scared.

can anyone please help me? soon i will have to do exam for my graduation from high school and because of these feelings i can't even focus in anything. 

i really don't know what to do.. please help meCryCryCry

Momo25,

Welcome to this forum....

I do not think of dajjal, I just discuss it according to hadith.

You don't need to scare, even to suicide, and please remember that anyone who committed suicide will get the punishment from Allah.

I suggest that you stay focused on your school which is clearly as one that will determine your future, whereas dajjal is not necessarily when it will appear.
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MIAW View Drop Down
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Points: 492 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MIAW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2018 at 1:29am
Originally posted by momo25 momo25 wrote:

hello i'm a new member here. can i ask all of you... how can all of you be so brave to even think about Dajjal? can you share how to do it?.

honestly, everytime i remember dajjal i got terrified. these feelings really make me unstable and just want to give up my life. suicide often come to my mind because i really am scared.

can anyone please help me? soon i will have to do exam for my graduation from high school and because of these feelings i can't even focus in anything. 

i really don't know what to do.. please help meCryCryCry

A true 'genuine' Muslim would not say such things, because a true Muslim is only 'scared' of Allah SWT. Wink










Edited by MIAW - 28 February 2018 at 1:31am
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MIAW View Drop Down
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Points: 492 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MIAW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2018 at 2:50am
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

...
That there is no "canonisation" or separation of good and bad Hadith's speaks already for itself...

First: 
You are discrediting the 'huge' work done by hundreds (yes hundreds... and that's just the most well known ones ) of Islamic scholars throughout Islamic history in this field. For example: http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Bukhari (if the link does not work, just google 'Muhammad_al-Bukhari')

Second: 
We don't call them 'good and bad'. See: http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith/Ulum/asb7.html

Third: 
Enemies of Islam (Early Atheists, Orientalists...etc) could not 'corrupt' the Qur'an, so they started 'injecting' fake Hadiths into Islamic Sunnah, and this gave rise to a great field in Islam: The Science of Hadith: http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith/Ulum/hadsciences.html

However, what is important to me as a Muslim individual (layman) is this:

Q: Do I worry that there exists some 'fake' Hadiths in my religion?
A: No

Q: Why is that?
A: Because I only surround myself by Authentic Hadiths. i.e. you will only find me referring to Authentic Hadiths. Anyone can come and inject a million new 'fake' Hadiths, but I will not even bother to notice, because I have my 'collection' of Authentic Hadiths, and that's good enough for me, because it should be enough to satisfy 'all' my needs for a lifetime.

Q: But how do I know if the Hadith is Authentic?
A: Because of the excellent work that the scholars have done for me (Jazahumullahu Khairan). So I draw from their experience and refer to their specialist hadith books (Example: Sahih Bukhari), if the Hadith is in there then I'll take it (and accept its classification therein), otherwise I'll cast it aside.

Q: So You're saying that there HAS been canonisation of Hadith?
A: You bet! ... In a huge way

Q: So why is this guy 'airmano' saying that there was no canonisation?
A: Because the 'poor guy' does not know what he is talking about. Smile


Quote ... Where things get however somewhat ridiculous is when Christians get accused of "forging the bible" whereas the Hadiths are 'venerated' ...

Oh dear... another 'misconception' that needs to be corrected...

It is not the same thing... previous religions did it to themselves (i.e. they were corrupted from within the religion, for material gains or otherwise), whereas 'fake' Hadiths were injected by 'outsider' enemies of Islam.








Edited by MIAW - 02 March 2018 at 1:05am
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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Points: 944 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2018 at 4:31am
Originally posted by momo25 momo25 wrote:

hello i'm a new member here. can i ask all of you... how can all of you be so brave to even think about Dajjal? can you share how to do it?.

honestly, everytime i remember dajjal i got terrified. these feelings really make me unstable and just want to give up my life. suicide often come to my mind because i really am scared.

can anyone please help me? soon i will have to do exam for my graduation from high school and because of these feelings i can't even focus in anything. 

i really don't know what to do.. please help meCryCryCry


Hey there, calm down.

I hope that this thing with the end of the world/dajjal thing is just a symptom of too much stress about your exams.

1, Don't worry about stuff you can't change. If it comes it does but it has not happened for many centuries and shows no sign of happening so....

2, The exams you are taking are not as important as the school teachers think they are. Those teachers have never worked outside the education system. They are under pressure to get you to perform. It's mostly their problem.

3, In your life do you really want to be an accademic? If so what in? If not, well, other stuff matters far more than just your GCSEs.

4, It's often tough being a teenager, especially as this world is putting pressure onto you to be about 5 different peole all of which are mutually contradictory.

Just do your best understanding that your best may well include days when you are rubbish and good days. Make sure you have a hobby!!!
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