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Does western society need more Islam?

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asep garut View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Does western society need more Islam?
    Posted: 21 March 2018 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by akthus akthus wrote:

Religion should be a personal choice.

How someone dresses is their personal choice.

Personal freedom should never be taken away and the Saudi model is not a desirable way to live.




Yes ... in embracing a religion there is no compulsion, and in this world there will be many religions, we can not reject it because it is a sunnatullah (a will of Allah).

Islamic teachings are not just for a nation or middle eastern person, but for rahmatan lil 'alamin for whoever wants to follow it. For example, I am a Muslim not from the Middle East, which I follow not because of the performance of the clothing or the material model, but what I follow is Allah's command to cover the aurat (nakedness) and that has been spoken by His Prophet.

There are many ways and models to cover aurat in accordance with personal desires but not against Islamic sharia.



So is it OK for me not to follow Islam?

yes .... because there is no compulsion to be a Muslim as in His word. The duty of Muslims is only to convey the truth of Allah's teaching and the result is only Allah who has "Hidayah" (guidance)

How about all those exMuslims who get killed for leaving Islam?

Why do they not get freedom of choice?


From where you can say like that ?, Qur'an, Hadith saheeh or other sources?

Thanks.



Well these countries punish leaving Islam with death;

https://www.indy100.com/article/the-countries-where-apostasy-is-punishable-by-death--Z110j2Uwxb

Quote Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen are the relevant countries.


And groups such as these take the job into their own hands;

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/australian-muslim-group-death-to-those-who-leave-islam/news-story/1c7bd7ae92533a4cb04bbfe6c4f97371

Quote AUSTRALIAN MUSLIM GROUP: DEATH TO THOSE WHO LEAVE ISLAM


Allah does not order to kill anyone unless he committed murder, but Allah order to keep human, and that it's the same with he has kept all human beings (Qur'an 4:32).

On the basis of that verse, then if we want to seek a truth in religion, please don't look at the behavior of the person, but the understanding of God Words.

Let alone murder, berating the worship of one who isn't worshiping Allah is forbidden (6: 108)



Given there are parts of Islamic teaching which expressly tell you to kill the apostate and convert with the sword and the torch and that this happens when Islam is politically strong, just as any other religion does, you will understand that I see it as a nasty thing that if given a chance will kill me.

That is the devil to persuade people to kill each other, but for those who truly obey the commands of their Lord they will not do that unless they are attacked, persecuted and the form of such evil.
Islam does not teach to kill one another except two things, as in the word of Allah: 60: 8
"Allah does not forbid to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion nor drove you out of your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity."
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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2018 at 1:33am
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by akthus akthus wrote:

Religion should be a personal choice.

How someone dresses is their personal choice.

Personal freedom should never be taken away and the Saudi model is not a desirable way to live.




Yes ... in embracing a religion there is no compulsion, and in this world there will be many religions, we can not reject it because it is a sunnatullah (a will of Allah).

Islamic teachings are not just for a nation or middle eastern person, but for rahmatan lil 'alamin for whoever wants to follow it. For example, I am a Muslim not from the Middle East, which I follow not because of the performance of the clothing or the material model, but what I follow is Allah's command to cover the aurat (nakedness) and that has been spoken by His Prophet.

There are many ways and models to cover aurat in accordance with personal desires but not against Islamic sharia.



So is it OK for me not to follow Islam?

yes .... because there is no compulsion to be a Muslim as in His word. The duty of Muslims is only to convey the truth of Allah's teaching and the result is only Allah who has "Hidayah" (guidance)

How about all those exMuslims who get killed for leaving Islam?

Why do they not get freedom of choice?


From where you can say like that ?, Qur'an, Hadith saheeh or other sources?

Thanks.



Well these countries punish leaving Islam with death;

https://www.indy100.com/article/the-countries-where-apostasy-is-punishable-by-death--Z110j2Uwxb

Quote Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen are the relevant countries.


And groups such as these take the job into their own hands;

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/australian-muslim-group-death-to-those-who-leave-islam/news-story/1c7bd7ae92533a4cb04bbfe6c4f97371

Quote AUSTRALIAN MUSLIM GROUP: DEATH TO THOSE WHO LEAVE ISLAM


Allah does not order to kill anyone unless he committed murder, but Allah order to keep human, and that it's the same with he has kept all human beings (Qur'an 4:32).

On the basis of that verse, then if we want to seek a truth in religion, please don't look at the behavior of the person, but the understanding of God Words.

Let alone murder, berating the worship of one who isn't worshiping Allah is forbidden (6: 108)



Given there are parts of Islamic teaching which expressly tell you to kill the apostate and convert with the sword and the torch and that this happens when Islam is politically strong, just as any other religion does, you will understand that I see it as a nasty thing that if given a chance will kill me.
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asep garut View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2018 at 4:45pm
Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by akthus akthus wrote:

Religion should be a personal choice.

How someone dresses is their personal choice.

Personal freedom should never be taken away and the Saudi model is not a desirable way to live.




Yes ... in embracing a religion there is no compulsion, and in this world there will be many religions, we can not reject it because it is a sunnatullah (a will of Allah).

Islamic teachings are not just for a nation or middle eastern person, but for rahmatan lil 'alamin for whoever wants to follow it. For example, I am a Muslim not from the Middle East, which I follow not because of the performance of the clothing or the material model, but what I follow is Allah's command to cover the aurat (nakedness) and that has been spoken by His Prophet.

There are many ways and models to cover aurat in accordance with personal desires but not against Islamic sharia.



So is it OK for me not to follow Islam?

yes .... because there is no compulsion to be a Muslim as in His word. The duty of Muslims is only to convey the truth of Allah's teaching and the result is only Allah who has "Hidayah" (guidance)

How about all those exMuslims who get killed for leaving Islam?

Why do they not get freedom of choice?


From where you can say like that ?, Qur'an, Hadith saheeh or other sources?

Thanks.



Well these countries punish leaving Islam with death;

https://www.indy100.com/article/the-countries-where-apostasy-is-punishable-by-death--Z110j2Uwxb

Quote Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen are the relevant countries.


And groups such as these take the job into their own hands;

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/australian-muslim-group-death-to-those-who-leave-islam/news-story/1c7bd7ae92533a4cb04bbfe6c4f97371

Quote AUSTRALIAN MUSLIM GROUP: DEATH TO THOSE WHO LEAVE ISLAM


Allah does not order to kill anyone unless he committed murder, but Allah order to keep human, and that it's the same with he has kept all human beings (Qur'an 4:32).

On the basis of that verse, then if we want to seek a truth in religion, please don't look at the behavior of the person, but the understanding of God Words.

Let alone murder, berating the worship of one who isn't worshiping Allah is forbidden (6: 108)

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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2018 at 10:33am
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by akthus akthus wrote:

Religion should be a personal choice.

How someone dresses is their personal choice.

Personal freedom should never be taken away and the Saudi model is not a desirable way to live.




Yes ... in embracing a religion there is no compulsion, and in this world there will be many religions, we can not reject it because it is a sunnatullah (a will of Allah).

Islamic teachings are not just for a nation or middle eastern person, but for rahmatan lil 'alamin for whoever wants to follow it. For example, I am a Muslim not from the Middle East, which I follow not because of the performance of the clothing or the material model, but what I follow is Allah's command to cover the aurat (nakedness) and that has been spoken by His Prophet.

There are many ways and models to cover aurat in accordance with personal desires but not against Islamic sharia.



So is it OK for me not to follow Islam?

yes .... because there is no compulsion to be a Muslim as in His word. The duty of Muslims is only to convey the truth of Allah's teaching and the result is only Allah who has "Hidayah" (guidance)

How about all those exMuslims who get killed for leaving Islam?

Why do they not get freedom of choice?


From where you can say like that ?, Qur'an, Hadith saheeh or other sources?

Thanks.



Well these countries punish leaving Islam with death;

https://www.indy100.com/article/the-countries-where-apostasy-is-punishable-by-death--Z110j2Uwxb

Quote Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen are the relevant countries.


And groups such as these take the job into their own hands;

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/australian-muslim-group-death-to-those-who-leave-islam/news-story/1c7bd7ae92533a4cb04bbfe6c4f97371

Quote AUSTRALIAN MUSLIM GROUP: DEATH TO THOSE WHO LEAVE ISLAM

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asep garut View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2018 at 6:24am
Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by akthus akthus wrote:

Religion should be a personal choice.

How someone dresses is their personal choice.

Personal freedom should never be taken away and the Saudi model is not a desirable way to live.




Yes ... in embracing a religion there is no compulsion, and in this world there will be many religions, we can not reject it because it is a sunnatullah (a will of Allah).

Islamic teachings are not just for a nation or middle eastern person, but for rahmatan lil 'alamin for whoever wants to follow it. For example, I am a Muslim not from the Middle East, which I follow not because of the performance of the clothing or the material model, but what I follow is Allah's command to cover the aurat (nakedness) and that has been spoken by His Prophet.

There are many ways and models to cover aurat in accordance with personal desires but not against Islamic sharia.



So is it OK for me not to follow Islam?

yes .... because there is no compulsion to be a Muslim as in His word. The duty of Muslims is only to convey the truth of Allah's teaching and the result is only Allah who has "Hidayah" (guidance)

How about all those exMuslims who get killed for leaving Islam?

Why do they not get freedom of choice?


From where you can say like that ?, Qur'an, Hadith saheeh or other sources?

Thanks.

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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2018 at 11:11am
Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

I'm a middle eastern Christian and I believe the West is missing it's faith I believe most countries of the Middle East need less Islam in them and the West needs less decadence. I hold Greece the the example all Western countries should follow. Secular yet still based on Christian principles just as America once was before it turned into this decadent society of the modern world. Where is your cross America?


I live in the UK. One of the least religious societies in the world.

We consistently produce far more science innovation, cultural works and international influence of all sorts than our population size and economy would imply.

I think that the two are not unrelated.

How do you think that the UK would benefit from more religion?

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Al Masihi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Masihi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2018 at 4:55am
I'm a middle eastern Christian and I believe the West is missing it's faith I believe most countries of the Middle East need less Islam in them and the West needs less decadence. I hold Greece the the example all Western countries should follow. Secular yet still based on Christian principles just as America once was before it turned into this decadent society of the modern world. Where is your cross America?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akthus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2018 at 12:36pm
I was born in to a Muslim family and for most of my adult life believed and took at face value what was taught and said about Islam.
However when I started to question my birth religion people ignored the uncomfortable truths.
For instance as a Muslim you have to accept that the Koran came from God with an angel transmitting this to Mohammed.
You also have to accept Muhammad was a prophet.
But there is no evidence that these things can be taken as fact.
There are no witnesses who confirmed Muhammad met an angel or indeed if it was an angel.
And the person who relayed the message was Muhammad.
So the whole religion is based on whether a single human being is telling the truth.

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