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i believe Quran and Bible |
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asep48garut60 
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 Posted: 08 October 2016 at 4:12pm |
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Dear 786SalamKhan,
------------------------------- What you must do is prove with irrefutable evidence; when, where, why and how these books were either lost or corrupted. ------------------------------- Sorry, do you mean that I have to prove with irrefutable evidence for all the books or just the Quran? I can only prove that the Quran is true and still maintained its authenticity, while on the other books I only have a little knowledge of it. Then I am curious to ask you why you said "If you were to thoroughly Delve into my comment, you would Realise that the Bible and the Koran can not both be true." Can you explain to me if the Quran is not correct? Thanks. Regards, Asep |
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786SalamKhan
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Posted: 08 October 2016 at 6:44am |
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Dear Asep,
I know what Muslims believe, you don't have to explain, as I used to be one (you can check my past posts on this forum). It has no bearing on my point whatsoever. You must delve into that post of mine thoroughly, as your reply indicates that you really didn't. I will address your reply anyway: You are implying that the books of the "past messengers", were either lost or corrupted. Would you believe me if I or anyone else were to claim that the Quran was lost or corrupted? No, you would not. You would ask me to prove such a claim, or declare me a liar. The "people of the book" claim to still have those books which you implied to be either lost or corrupted, which would be an incredibly serious claim to make, not something you can claim lightly and hope no one will question you. What you must do is prove with irrefutable evidence; when, where, why and how these books were either lost or corrupted. Edited by 786SalamKhan - 08 October 2016 at 6:45am |
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asep48garut60
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Posted: 07 October 2016 at 11:45pm |
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Dear 786SalamKhan,
I really understand your points, all right I'll explain it in more detail: All Muslims are commanded by God to believe in the messengers before Prophet Muhammad, including Moses, David and Jesus (as mentioned in His Word). Likewise, faithful to their books, books that I mean here the books when they were still alive (as mentioned in His Word), not the books now. ---------------------------------- If you were to thoroughly delve into my comment, you would realise that the Bible and the Quran cannot both be true. You are saying that before Islam, Christianity was true and God was the Holy Trinity, but now that Islam is here, Islam is true and God is the Tawhid; --------------------------------- I've realized that the Bible and the Quran are not the same (The Holy Trinity and Tawhid), but I personally say that there's a Book that's still guaranteed its truth, ie the Quran (as mentioned in His Word), this means that I do not believe in the Bible now, and I just believe in the books at the time His messengers were still alive. ---------------------------- you present God as some sort of schizophrenic. Why not then join the Bahai or the Ahmadiyyah faith, do you see what my point is? ------------------------- I am not presenting God as a kind of schizophrenia, I do not have the slightest inkling as you said. God will never make mistakes, but God has an "Iradah" (will of God), and His will is absolute, anyone can not resist His will, in the Quran there are examples of His words. --------------------------- Why not then join the Bahai or the Ahmadiyyah faith, do you see what my point is? ----------------------- I'm not going to join the Baha'i or the Ahmadiyyah faith, but I will join with Muslims that are still faithfully practice their religion as commanded by Allah (in Quran) and the Prophet Muhammad. Regards, Asep |
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786SalamKhan
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Posted: 07 October 2016 at 1:26am |
If you were to thoroughly delve into my comment, you would realise that the Bible and the Quran cannot both be true. You are saying that before Islam, Christianity was true and God was the Holy Trinity, but now that Islam is here, Islam is true and God is the Tawhid; you present God as some sort of schizophrenic. Why not then join the Bahai or the Ahmadiyyah faith, do you see what my point is? |
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asep48garut60
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Posted: 07 October 2016 at 1:03am |
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Dear 786SalamKhan,
I just ordered by Allah to believe in all books revealed to the Apostles when they were alive that these books actually came from Allah, even believing in the books before the Quran was revealed, it's included into the pillars of faith in Islamic law. Quran 3: 3 and Quran 4: 163 Keep in mind that believing in the books before the Quran it doesn't mean that now I have to follow all of what is on the books before. Book I believe and I always try to run all His commandments is the Quran, because in it there's the promise of Allah about preserve its authenticity, as His word in 15:9. The verse gives a guarantee of purity and authenticity of His words forever. Regards. Asep |
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786SalamKhan
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Posted: 06 October 2016 at 1:17pm |
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If you believe the Bible, you must keep in mind, you would not pick up a Quran, and interpret it however way you want.
There are many books in the Bible, the books of the New Testament were written by some of the Apostles of Christ; the Twelve, and the Seventy. These men either directly knew and were chosen by Christ Himself to spread the Gospel and Baptise in the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, or, they directly knew the aforementioned men and also had authority to do what they did. Obviously, the authors of the New Testament, knew what they were writing about, it is not up to someone two thousand years later to believe their own, differing interpretation holds more authority. The authors of the New Testament, and the rest of the Apostles, passed on their knowledge to whoever they deemed worthy to succeed them. This is known as Sacred Tradition and Apostolic Succession, equivalent to the Hadith and Sunnah in Islam. These Traditions in turn, are recorded in writing by the Church Fathers, the earliest of whom would be equivalent to the Salaf in Islam. If you truly accept the Bible, it is now up to you to find the true Church that upholds the Traditions passed down by the Apostles of Christ. Edited by 786SalamKhan - 06 October 2016 at 1:23pm |
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asep48garut60
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Posted: 22 September 2016 at 5:02pm |
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Dear David C, peace be with you !
Thank you for your short explanation, and I believe you've understood about the real mission of the contents of my writing is just to remind about the goodness in attitude towards others. Regards. |
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DavidC
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Posted: 22 September 2016 at 6:35am |
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The books of the Bible and the Qur'an are not comparable. The Bible is more like hadith than it is like the Qu'ran.
Again, the only candidate I can think of for An Nisa 4:136 would be the tablets with the ten commandments spoken directly to Moses by God in Exodus 20. A distant second choice would be the book of proverbs which the Israelites carried out of Egypt. "The Book of Moses" is not a term used by Bible scholars. Exodus contains Moses' narrative, but he dies in it and he couldn't have written about his own death. Edited by DavidC - 22 September 2016 at 6:51am |
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Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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asep48garut60 wrote: