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Yusuf. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yusuf. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2005 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by ChrisNo1 ChrisNo1 wrote:

You ask do I know any other languages!? lol Well unfortunately I Don't. Time and money are not on my side unfortunately but it is a great ambition of mine. I hope one day to learn Turkish and Arabic!

I love both those languages and wish you great success. Otherwise, I don't really dispute anything you're saying. I would not want to see any single language replace the many wonderful languages of the people of the earth.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nausheen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2005 at 6:56pm

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Originally posted by ChrisNo1 ChrisNo1 wrote:

It is obviously true that one cannot get a 'pure' translation but the message can still be clear. You talk about spiritual depth but that can still be obtained from translation. I do agree that some things wont translate just as well as the native tongue. But that is besides the point. One should not learn a language to understand the rules and stories of a universal religion (as islam claims). Understanding should be reached out to all people from all nations. Some people in this day of age can't afford to do languages courses because they don't even have enough money to eat!! If the Qu'ran claims a universal role then it can be universally translated because God himself inspired Mohammed to write the book. Learning Arabic should be a preference not an obligation.

All your points were covered and explained in my post. I guess you missed the messege entirely. Go to page one of this thread and you will find it

Peace,

Nausheen

<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa

Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena

wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChrisNo1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2005 at 6:46pm

It is obviously true that one cannot get a 'pure' translation but the message can still be clear. You talk about spiritual depth but that can still be obtained from translation. I do agree that some things wont translate just as well as the native tongue. But that is besides the point. One should not learn a language to understand the rules and stories of a universal religion (as islam claims). Understanding should be reached out to all people from all nations. Some people in this day of age can't afford to do languages courses because they don't even have enough money to eat!! If the Qu'ran claims a universal role then it can be universally translated because God himself inspired Mohammed to write the book. Learning Arabic should be a preference not an obligation.

You go on further to translate a word in Arabic and ask what English the english equivalant is? Well you gave a discription of what "taqwa" and other words say "There are no english words that can translate it" Nevertheless you was able to give me an discription in English of the words meaning, so i was able to get some idea.

You ask do I know any other languages!? lol Well unfortunately I Don't. Time and money are not on my side unfortunately but it is a great ambition of mine. I hope one day to learn Turkish and Arabic!

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nausheen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2005 at 6:41pm

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullah,

Originally posted by Yusuf. Yusuf. wrote:

Jazakallah, ukhti Nausheen, you said it much better than I could.

Wa iyakum, Yaakhi. I could not be better than you, as you know arabic.

I have the chance and honor to study some protions of the Quran from a knowledgeable scholar who is well versed in Arabic and tafsir Quran.

It is amazing how he spent hours to explain just the seven verses of surat al fatiha. After which he said, he could not do complete justice to the meanings of the surah. He gave us references that contain more than 200 pages of tafsir on these seven verses. Subhan allah!

When we read ppl wondering if a translation could be sufficient, the real thrist for knowledge is wanting.

May allah guide us all upright.

[31.27] And were every tree that is in the earth (made into) pens and the sea (to supply it with ink), with seven more seas to increase it, the words of Allah would not come to an end; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.



Edited by Nausheen
<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa

Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena

wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
[/COLOR]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yusuf. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2005 at 5:50pm

Jazakallah, ukhti Nausheen, you said it much better than I could.

Yusuf
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yusuf. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2005 at 5:49pm
Originally posted by ChrisNo1 ChrisNo1 wrote:

I think it is fair. If I was to write a newspaper or a story book in English, I am sure it could be translated into arabic and vice versa. I understand that both languages are completely different but the message and point of the story or article would be understood if translated!

If this was an impossible concept then how do people translate the Qu'ran into English! I have read the Qu'ran in English!

With all due respect, how many languages do you speak?

As for "translations" of the Holy Qur'an, they are generally referred to as "interpretations." If you compare them, you can see that there is no complete agreement on even the most fundamental questions. For example, the Arabic term "taqwa," which is often translated as "fear," but the word is derived from "waqaa," which means "to preserve." A "waaqii" is a person who is safe. "taqwa" is derived by the prefixation of "'at," which is a medio-reflexive prefix. Thus, "taqwa" is the state of security attained through one's preservation of something. In the Holy Qur'an, this is further defined by context to mean "the attaining of security by preserving one's awareness of Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala." What English word means that?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nausheen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2005 at 5:43pm

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rehman ir rahim

Originally posted by ChrisNo1 ChrisNo1 wrote:

If I created a book for cooking with receipes and it was translated, I might not be able to get a 'Pure' word for word translation but the receipe is still there. Surely if the Qu'ran is taught in native tongues the receipe is still there!

Dear Chris,

Quran is not a book of recepies or just straightforward/mathematical formulas.

It depends on the nature of the text that is being translated. Do you expect poetry to be translated without loss of meaning?

For that matter, even some jokes cannot create the complete desired effect when they are brought from one language to another.

There are some laws and rules in Quran, which i believe can be conveyed, in other languages, as there lived scholars int all times who have studied and written about these in their languages. However the spiritual aspects cannot be transported completely in English or any other language, without having a text alongside to explain it further.

Quran is the book that has been translated in maximum number of languages. This is so, because it is not in the capacity or means of everyone to learn arabic, and then understand the Quran. However, a translated text, helps a great deal, and solves the purpose.

So it is not that doing a  translation or reading it for the purpose of guidance is a totally redundant exercise. However for those who wish to and desire to understand the book in its complete depths, it is advisable to learn arabic and then study The Book, as it was revealed. It needs to be mentioned however, that understanding of Quran takes a lot of exercise and effort, just reading the original or the translation cannot be sufficient. it can help in reflection, but for a deeper understanding, one needs to "study" the Book. 

Peace,

Nausheen

<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa

Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena

wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
[/COLOR]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChrisNo1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2005 at 5:40pm

I think it is fair. If I was to write a newspaper or a story book in English, I am sure it could be translated into arabic and vice versa. I understand that both languages are completely different but the message and point of the story or article would be understood if translated!

If this was an impossible concept then how do people translate the Qu'ran into English! I have read the Qu'ran in English!

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