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"Analyzing Whisper" (& board dynamics)

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Servetus View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 February 2006 at 10:06am

I originally posted this in the thread related to the 7 July London terrorist attack but think it deserves a thread of its own.  Whisper will, I hope, excuse my presumption here, but there does seem to be discussion of board and inter-personal dynamics lately and this might be a thread to discuss some of the general points at issue, not just those related to Whisper.

____________________________________________________________

 

(The question was asked:) "Whisper, don't you have a sense of humour ?"

 

"Analyzing Whisper"

 

Politically speaking, it is probably just a wee bit difficult to get a good belly laugh when one has the toe of a (UK) jackboot down one's throat and the heavy heel of another (USA) jackboot in one's groin.  As my older hippie sister used to sing:  "Step out of line, The Man come, and take you away."

 

As I have no doubt imperfectly understood, Whisper is an at once educated and cosmopolitan Afghani who is not particularly pleased with the means, at times incomprehensibly complex, by which his country has been, yet again, "occupied," this time by a consortium of foreign powers.  He takes issue with what might very generally be called the "party," or official (especially American) line and argues against it.  Is that difficult to understand?  When what he considers especially puffed-up and vainglorious Americans and Brits arrive here, at IC, which as its very name suggests is related to Islam, and if he cares enough about the person to even try, he subjects them to a sort of at times rough but complex "deconstruction," a term the French know well.  Even if it doesn't always work, it sometimes makes for good theatre, at the very least (although I don't condone insults). 

   

If I wanted to hear (again speaking very generally) the standard party line repeated ad nauseam I would not come to IslamiCity.  I would watch television.  Here, I not only expect but am also hoping to hear alternative, even difficult points of view.

 

Not so long ago, really, at the founding of my country, America, and thereafter, the competing "Western" foreign powers, especially England, France, Spain and the Vatican were playing their customary games of political, commercial and religious intrigue.  At the outset, in his closing address, George Washington warned us, as a nation, to not become too deeply entangled in them.  He clearly recognized the danger.  But alas! And alack! That warning went unheeded.  With how sad irony, then, do the Paul Reveres of other nations now have to issue their warning, concerning us:

 

"The redcoats are coming!  The redcoats are coming!"

 

Serv    



Edited by Servetus
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herjihad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herjihad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2006 at 1:46pm

Bismillah,

So, are you saying that you think Brother Sasha is cool and interesting to listen to?  Ditto.

Our country.  Do you know the story about Guyasutta and George Washington and the Indian land around 1766?

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Khadija1021 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2006 at 1:53pm

Salam

Serv, you bring up an very good issue when you pointed out that George Washington warned us what would happened if we behaved in certain ways.  Many great men (and women) have warned us about the pitfalls of this world; however, humankind enviably fails to heed their warnings.  I honestly can say that I know of no group of individuals in the history of humankind which has held fast and strong to the warning which have been given them by the wise individuals who came before them.

Just as Americans would have benefited from heeding the wisdom of its first leader, George Washington, many of the problems that have risen within the Muslim Ummah would not have arisen if Muslims would have heeded the wisdom of its first leader, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).  The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is our example, our guide, our right pattern for living on the Straight Path of Allah.  Although many Muslims get angry and rise to the occasion when someone insults the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), they, themselves, fail to heed the words of wisdom bestowed upon them by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).  Personally, I find this more insulting than what some non-Muslims have said and/or done to defile the image of the Prophet (bpuh).

The reason I feel this way is because when non-Muslims do these things, although they are still wrong, their acts are done out of ignorance by those who do not follow the faith; however, when a Muslim doesn’t follow the example of the Prophet (pbuh), he/she is defiling the image of the Prophet (pbuh) from within the faith.  He/she is making a personal statement (by their very actions) that he/she doesn’t have to follow the wisdom of the Prophet (pbuh).  No Muslim has the right to do this.  Being a Muslim means to believe in Allah and to follow the way of the Prophet (pbuh); doing so is in the very creed of Islam.  If and when they fail to do this, they literally separate themselves from Islam and are told that they remain separated from Islam until they repent and ask for forgiveness.  The sad fact is that the rest of the world doesn’t judge things that way.  They don’t think to themselves, “Well, that Muslim violated the commands of Allah so his/her acts were not Islamic and Islam should not be tarnished for that.”  As can be seen through the media and on this board, it is highly likely they are thinking the worse about Islam, condemning both Islam and all those who believe in Allah through Islam.  So, whenever a Muslim disobeys Allah, he/she is literally defiling Islam and its Messenger, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

I am going to include in my response to your post something which has been on my mind a lot lately.  Too bad it has not been on the mind of those who have taken matters into their own hands instead of following the example of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).  

In the Name of Allah, the Most Compassionate, the Most Merciful

Prophet Muhammad's (saws) Last Sermon


[This sermon was delivered on the Ninth Day of Dhul-Hijjah 10 A.H. in the 'Uranah valley of Mount Arafat' in Mecca.]

 

After praising and thanking Allah the Prophet (saws) said:

 

"O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying very carefully and take these words to those who could not be present here today.

 

O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your Lord, and that he will indeed reckon your deeds. Allah has forbidden you to take usury (interest), therefore all interest obligations shall henceforth be waived. Your capital is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. Allah has judged that there shall be no interest and that all the interest due to Abbas ibn 'Abd'al Muttalib [the Prophet's uncle] be waived.

 

Every right arising out of homicide in pre-islamic days is henceforth waived and the first such right that i waive is that arising from the murder of Rabiah ibn al Harithibn.

 

O People, the unbelievers indulge in tampering with the calender in order to make permissible that which Allah forbade, and to forbid that which Allah has made permissible. With Allah the months are twelve in number. Four of them are holy, three of these are successive and one occurs singly between the months of Jumada and Shaban.

 

Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope of that he will be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.

 

O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under Allah's trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right, then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with anyone of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste. O People, listen to me in earnest, worship Allah, say your five daily prayers, fast during the month of Ramadhan, and give your wealth in Zakat. Perform Hajj if you can afford to.

 

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over a white - except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belogs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not therefore do injustice to yourselves. Remember one day you will meet Allah and answer your deeds. So beware: do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.

 

O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me, and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand my words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray.

 

All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O Allah, that I have conveyed Your message to Your people."

Inshallah the Ummah will stop following men who’s only desire is to dominate and obtain power over them even if it means leading them astray and start listening to the wisdom of the one (pbuh) Allah sent to guide us.  Ameen.

With respect to Brother Whisper, I simply want to ask those who condemn him what they would do, think or feel if they were denied the right to live in peace and without fear which comes from the constant threat or and/or actuality war taking place in their own backyard?  Regardless of which nation’s political leaders are correct; the truth of the matter is that those who lives their day-to-day lives in those countries have been forced to flee.  These people truly have no home in this world because their homeland has become a battlefield for the political powers that be.  What human being could be happy with this lifestyle?  What human being would simply sit back and accept this?  I don’t know of a single American who would including myself. 

Every human being needs certain things in this world.  Until we live in a world that affords them such, there will be people, like Whisper, who speak out and sometimes even shout out against those who play an active role in oppressing and demoralizing humans.  I’m not saying they always go about it in the best way, but the fact that they are brave enough to speak out is due some degree of respect. 

Ashukru-lillahi Rabbil-Alameen wala- hawla  wala quwata illa billah

 

ALLAH HAFIZ

Sister Khadija

Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2006 at 1:57pm

Frankly speaking, I couldn't understand a bit about this post. Too dumb! But wait a minute, if the whole premise of this post is just based upon single one assumption, that Bro Whisper is an Afghani, I know, atleast this much, that this assumption is not correct. I don't know what can be said about the rest of the article, if the assumption on which it is based, is on wrong premise.

In the end, I really couldn't connect when he says "At the outset, in his closing address, George Washington warned us, as a nation, to not become too deeply entangled in them.  He clearly recognized the danger.". Who are "them" used as pronoun without the noun? Ah! another clueless discourse or may be I am out of sync??

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herjihad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2006 at 2:09pm

Bismillah,

He means other governements entanglements by them.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ketchup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2006 at 2:13pm

This post has been made to defend (am I correct?) Whispers venomous attack on all things British.. To the point of wishing us all dead lol

Thet we were wrong to ignore his posts by using humour?  Because we didnt want to fight?

"The days followed one another patiently. Right back at the beginning of the multiverse they had tried all passing at the same time, and it hadn't worked."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2006 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by Servetus Servetus wrote:

 

Not so long ago, really, at the founding of my country, America, and thereafter, the competing “Western” foreign powers, especially England, France, Spain and the Vatican were playing their customary games of political, commercial and religious intrigue.  At the outset, in his closing address, George Washington warned us, as a nation, to not become too deeply entangled in them.  He clearly recognized the danger.  But alas! And alack! That warning went unheeded.  With how sad irony, then, do the Paul Reveres of other nations now have to issue their warning, concerning us:

 

“The redcoats are coming!  The redcoats are coming!”

 

Serv    

Ahmadjoyia.  The paragraph clearly states the "them" George Washington was referring to in his statement.  But, more clearly, he was more warning about getting caught up in the politics of great powers with each other. 

This thread is not so much about Whisper, but about 'why' so many brethren in here West Bash.  Brother Sasha is a very intelligent and kind man.  But, he is viewing the conflict from the other side.  Something hard for a typical "westerner" to do. 

Muslim westerners often face a hardship in finding middle ground and its almost impossible to the Non Muslim. 

Serv, myself, and a few others here on the board, try to view all sides and look for the truth like a pearl in an oyster.  The casing is stinky, slimy and in my opinion unappetizing, but the truth is the valuable prize for digging through all of it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Servetus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2006 at 2:16pm

(AhmadJoyia:) "Frankly speaking, I couldn't understand a bit about this post ..."

Sorry.  I tried to write as clearly as possible.

"In the end, I really couldn't connect when he says ..."

Sorry.  The pronoun "he" in this case refers to someone named Servetus.  That would of course be me.

(Above, I, Servetus, wrote:) "At the outset, in his closing address, George Washington warned us, as a nation, to not become too deeply entangled in them.  He clearly recognized the danger ....

The "them" in this case refers to foreign "intrigues," etc., referred to in the sentence immediately previous.  Again, sorry, it could have been a bit clearer and the mistake is in this case mine.  One tries.

Thank you, Herjihad and Khadija, kindly.  Time now is short but I shall try to respond more fully.  Quick answer, Herjihad, is yes, I at once, or yek dem, appreciate Whisper's contributions (but I don't read all of the threads on this board and have yet to be subjected to any systematic deconstruction, so to speak).

Best regards,

Serv

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