Feelings now since 9/11 - Share

pauline - kindly inform me where exactly in the new testament we are told to sacrifice animals to atone for sin, and where we are told to kill our children to prove our love for God

also i have never said that muslims kill christians in malaysia, although if someone provides evidence that they do, i will consider it, as i do everything else

your hatred for everything and everyone unislamic is becoming very obvious, sadly

fredifreeloader wrote: semar - i do not know what the point of your post is.  you seem to think you are informing me of something by proving the collusion of the west, notably the united states, in the invasion of east timor by the Indonesians, and the subsequent massacres - your point that there was no Christianity in east timor or Indonesia before imperialism is irrelevant - it is there now, and has been for hundreds of years.  one of the links you posted makes the claim that Muslims and Christians co-exist peacefully in Indonesia.  this may be true for many, but not for all, as can be seen by the dreadful persecution endured by Christians at Muslim hands in that land are you labouring under the misapprehension that i am here to represent and defend the west?  such things as were perpetrated by the herman willem daendels of this world are indeed contrary to the mind and will of God as revealed in the new testament, as you correctly pointed out,

My point is simple, you always always talk about killing by Muslims and Christian is holly free from any horrible things, Christian is so peaceful, so being Christian will be so peaceful . So I wanted to raised up that killing by Christian under colonialism,  holocaust etc, way much larger number than done by muslim.

fredifreeloader wrote:  "but military conquest of other lands is very much part of Islam, as can be seen by muhammads letter (supposedly inspired by the angel gabriel) to the omani people"

Christian spred into Africa, south and east Asia, south, Central, and Latin America and other places via colonialism. Nobody can't argue that colonialism is identical with cheating, slavery, murder, killing, forced, and of course military. But in contrast Islam reached south and east Asia, Africa peacefully no (less) bloody history, just by trading.

About "massacre" in east timor done by both side Fretilin and Indonesian army, but bias is always there. Fretilin also did many kidnapping. Many Teachers and that send by Indonesian government to reduce the illiteracy among the east tomoreese when Portuguese that over 85%, kidnapped by the Fretilin. Thats why the Xanana Gusmo, East Timor President, who was Fretilin leader never talked abut his old adventure. (By the way xanana is not indigeneous timorees, his father is portugeese and his mother is timorees). 

Regarding the number of massacre victims is a result from very rough  assumption: the population should be this number but only this number so they assumes killed by Indonesian army. They don't consider that many east timorees moved to other places in Indonesia, thousands east timorees students who studied in Indonesian Universities and never went back.

Yes many of them (the missing peoples) were killed during the occupation but not only by Indonesian army but Fretilin also contributed big chunk.

I believe you will protest if we assume that current population in Iraq is should be 22 million (census 1997), now only 21 million, than we say all killed by US troop. This is what happen with east timor case, thy assumed all missing peoples caused by Indonesiaon Army.

Anyway I still can not and will not say that Christianity is a cruel religion even though many of it's follower do those things. And I'll not say that Christianity is "religion by forced/gun" even though it's spreading into Asia, Africa, south central and Latin America mainly by colonialism who used gun to occupied those lands.

Edited by semar

By the way I think thread off to much. Please consider JWNew question, you (muslims) may have something to say to him,

JWNew wrote: Hey guys, i'm not sure where to put this, so I guess i'll put it in the most relevant place i think is in this forum... I am a student at school currently doing a project about the treatment of Islam since 9/11 on the media, and the effect it has had on individual lives of Muslims in Australia and America. I am trying to collect a variety of feelings/stories from individual muslims from Australia, and America. Please feel free to share your feelings about this issue. If you have any stories for example, it would really help out a lot... I am trying to understand from a western culture point of view, and i feel that posting on forums is a start. Please state if your an American-Muslim or Australian-Muslim in your posts, thanks a lot. Have you felt a greater sense of prejudice when you walk down the streets, was it different before 9/11? How Do you think the media is potraying Islam/Muslims? Things like that will help out a lot, thanks.

I my selves didn't have any special experiences, probably because I am not look like neither middle eastern nor south Asian. My wives who where scarves, she was a little bit scared to get out for weeks. Usually she walked my kids to the parks everyday, she stopped it for a while. And when she was out many peoples watch her from her head to toes. Like I mentioned in other post just recently, she went to a bread store, the store worker said to her "this is America, be American, don't where such thing".

One time in the stop sign a group of youngster stopped beside us and they yell to us (probably to my wives), with very dirty word your are sons of "f..b.."

Some of my friends have some incidents. Here one of the funny story, one time my friend (Turkish) went to the funeral that located in  quite remote area, he passed the old abandoned small airport (no longer active), there were many junk small airplanes there. Then he stopped by and took some pictures with his video camera, suddenly 3 policemen came to him  (he has no idea from where they appeared)and asked him many questions, asked for id and even asked him to give his camera and they screen what pictures that he has on his camera. Thanks God, eventually the polices let him go, but his wive so scarred. This was happened on the same day when somebody with middle Eastern look, detained more than a week due to taking pictures in Santa Monica peer (California), with allegation taking "unusual object".

The other story, on summer 2004 my friend (Pakistani) and his family went vacation to Bahama. When he returned back to US in Florida airport, he had to do about 6 hours interrogation, so he missed his continuation flights. He had to wait till the next day to continue his flight to home. Neither the airliner nor the homeland security (HLS) refused to reimburse the hotel due to the interrogation process.

He had to experience this thing even though he told them that he is a us citizens and had been working for a defense company for over 14 years, got the highest company security clearance. The funny thing was when the HLS guy found some saudi addresses and saudi phone numbers in his wallet, the HLS guy looked so sock. Actually those addresses are his friends that he met during his hajj trip a few years earlier. Even shocker when he found a peace of paper that has some supplication in Arabic. Because so sock the HLS guy asked him a few times where was that particular paper for a few times that in fact he hold it. They made copies for all all suffs in his wallet.

Anyway eventually he back home safely, but just because of his name and his looks he has troubles. He said that for him wa OK but for his young kids that experiencing this incident, they would record this incident and treatment deep on their hearts and their brain. It may damage their trust to the authority of their fairness.

Edited by semar

Fredie, you are the reason that civilization is declining. Your focus is only 2 inches where you could only see your own image. How narrow-minded are you? I was just being opened-minded in viewing your statement with just and reasons or rather contributing my rational views based on facts and experiences. You, on the other side are irrational about those who disagrees with your negative statement about Islam and Islamic countries.

Brother Semar has given you a vivid and basic input about the Islamic teachings.

I hope you will take it in good faith that Islam is not a killing religion as you claimed. I see no ending in throwing pies against one another. Therefore I will excuse myself from posting or replying to your post in future. One clause in the Quran which I could still remember is that the Prophet said something about the time changes when there is no war and that killings were not needed. It taught about principal to those ancient inhabitants where most of them were illiterated on how to protect themselves and their families during the wartime. It is not wrong to punish those who committed an inhumane act. The teaching of Islam is to prevent inhumane acts. The 9/11 has no connection with the religion although the terrorists were mostly Muslims. The whole episode was completely miscontrued that Islam advocates any of those inhumane acts. The 9/11 was politically motivated. Politic breeds terrorism.

Anyway, I have no energy to spent on argueing with you further as you are clearly an evangelist that criticizes other religions. What is the point to argue with the Christian Evangelist? You have a mission, and your mission is to condemn about others. Everyone in this forum could read through your bias and prejudice, baseless statements.

Perhaps, it will be wise for you to explain on why the OT has been changed to NT? It has been changed because the OT and Quran are the same. In order to protect the interest of the Christianity, it had been changed and re-wrote as NT. The day of armageddon is the day when the truth reveals itself to the whole world. The truth will always stay and the lies will fade.

Save your energy and go somewhere else where gullible people will listen to you. Have a pleasant life.

Edited by pauline35