a Surah the like thereof |
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airmano
Senior Member Joined: 31 March 2014 Status: Offline Points: 884 |
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What did I write again here:
It's easy to be a prophet. Airmano Ps: waiting for my second prediction to come true: Only authors that carry the name Mohamed can be accepted and he/she got to be illiteral. Edited by airmano - 13 October 2015 at 8:11am |
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The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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The Saint
Senior Member Joined: 07 November 2014 Status: Offline Points: 832 |
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I think I asked a very simple question and a simple straight answer is in order.
Give me references of the verses/instances you have quoted to show Quranic criteria fulfilled as challenged. Where are the verses/text from? |
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and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious |
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The Saint
Senior Member Joined: 07 November 2014 Status: Offline Points: 832 |
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Give me references of the verses/instances you have quoted to show Quranic criteria fulfilled as challenged.
What did I write again here: I do not know. If you want me to know you may kindly tell me. However, what is your point? What are trying to say? Airmano (citing myself): Since according to the given criteria (as Ron stated) it doesn't seem to be particular difficult to find superior prose, I guess that the selection rules will get quickly tightened. Tightened? The rules are there for anyone to read. Are you saying you still do not know? I dare to make a guess on what we will end up with: - The prose has to be written in old Arabic.... Do you have the ability to compare Arabic with Sanskrit or Latin? Do you or Webb, even now understand what you are required to do? What the challenge is? |
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and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious |
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Ron Webb
Senior Member Male atheist Joined: 30 January 2008 Location: Ottawa, Canada Status: Offline Points: 2467 |
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Where?
We're saying that you do not know. |
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Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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chalky
Newbie Joined: 16 December 2014 Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Interesting discussion but the challenge seems worthless. Who would bother to try to reproduce a book with no chronology, no narrative sequence and very often no context
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The Saint
Senior Member Joined: 07 November 2014 Status: Offline Points: 832 |
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Here you go. I've only provided one example of each, but in most cases there are several examples to choose from. There are also numerous rhetorical devices not mentioned by Tzortrzis. I'm not sure if this was supposed to be a complete list or merely illustrative. In any case, they are easy enough to find.
Emphasis From paragraph 5: "certainly, my punishment is violent and severe". The word "certainly" adds emphasis, and the choice of first person singular ("my") rather than the more usual plural form ("our") makes the punishment more personal, implying that the offence is to God directly. Multiple Meaning From paragraph 4: "It is God who illuminated the heavens and the earth". The word "illuminated" suggests both the literal meaning of providing light from the sun, and also the metaphorical meaning of revealing the heavens and earth, and making them known to us. Iltifaat � Grammatical shift From paragraph 15: "he hopes to merit the reward of his Lord". The reference to "his Lord" is from Ali's point of view; and yet later in the same paragraph He directs Muhammad to say "the chastisement which I prepare for them". A lesser writer might have said "which your Lord prepares", to be consistent; but in His infinite wisdom, God has chosen the word "I", again emphasizing the personal nature of their affront to Him and of His retribution. Word order and Arrangement From paragraph 1: "As to myself, I understand and I know." For humans, knowledge precedes understanding -- one gains specific knowledge of details in order to attain understanding of the principles underlying them. God chose to reverse these two concepts to show that He has no such restrictions. His understanding of the world is separate from specific factual knowledge of its parts; indeed, He made the parts in accordance of His understanding of the whole. Ellipsis From paragraph 8: "O prophet! my advertisement arrived (at its destination); perhaps will they act (conformably to it)." The words in parentheses are understood from the context, rather than being part of the text itself. (Note that there is no example of ellipsis given in the Tzortzis analysis of al-Kawthar. Apparently he overlooked it.) Conceptual Relatedness (Intertextuality) From paragraph 4: "It is God who illuminated the heavens and the earth" This is related to the so-called "Verse of Light" in the Quran (24:35): "Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth." It is also internally related to paragraph 2, which mentions "the two lights, Muhammed and Ali". Indeed, light is a metaphor that appears frequently in the Quran. Intensification From paragraph 17: "they shall be safe in the kiosques of paradise." The word "kiosques" (kiosks) denotes a small space, usually open on one side -- not an obvious place of safety and refuge, nor one which would normally be associated with the grandeur of Paradise. The contrast in meaning intensifies the promise of God to keep them safe even in what might otherwise be seen differently. Choice of words & Particles From paragraph 3: "the gardens of delight" Although God seems to take delight in detailing the tortures inflicted on the damned, He prefers generalities in describing heaven, to allow our imaginations to provide whatever images might delight each of us personally. However, in this passage God makes an exception. The metaphor (and it clearly is just a metaphor) of a garden calls to mind the peacefulness as well as the bounty of heaven, to which I think we all can relate. Phonetics From paragraph 11: "Their habitation shall be hell". The word "habitation" may be an unusual choice for a place of torture, but the use of this word forms an alliteration to strengthen the message and draw the listener's attention to it. Semantically Orientated Repetition From paragraph 3: "they shall be thrown into hell"; from paragraph 7: "certainly, hell is their habitation"; from paragraph 11: "Their habitation shall be hell". Three times God warns that sinners shall be sent to hell, and there are many other passages that present the same semantic idea in different words (2, 5, 9, 12, 15, 16). This drives home the main message, that your loving and merciful God intends to torture disbelievers endlessly. Intimacy From paragraph 15: "He passes the night prostrate before God." In addition to indicating Ali's piety, God chooses to mention this to show his intimate relationship and knowledge of Ali's habits, even when he is alone at night. Exaggeration From paragraph 9: "their enemy is the Imam of sinners." Whether this is a reference to an historical leader, or perhaps to Satan, the title "Imam" is obviously undeserved; but to use such an epithet heightens the degree of animosity and threat that he poses. Rebuke and contempt From paragraph 12: "Among them we changed some into apes and hogs; we cursed them until the day of resurrection." References to apes and hogs are clear expressions of contempt, and there can be no stronger rebuke than the curse that God imposes here. Conciseness From paragraph 5: "God had already destroyed Ad and Tamud, on account of their crimes." Rather than provide a long list of crimes and their consequences, God simply refers to two tribes which would have been known at the time the Quran was revealed. Flexibility I have no idea what rhetorical device Tzortzis means by "flexibility", and he doesn't give an example himself, so neither will I. Prophesy/Factual From paragraph 16: "We have announced to thee a progeny of just men" The "just men" referred to are the Twelve Imams also mentioned in the Quran (5:12). Later in the paragraph they are described as "living or dead", in reference to the Mahdi. What are these? And from where? Please answer. I need a clear and direct answer. |
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and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious |
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The Saint
Senior Member Joined: 07 November 2014 Status: Offline Points: 832 |
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Interesting discussion but the challenge seems .................
One more seemingly ignorant critic! |
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and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious |
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The Saint
Senior Member Joined: 07 November 2014 Status: Offline Points: 832 |
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Tightened? The rules are there for anyone to read.
Where? Here. Here is a sample. One I have already given you before. What makes the shortest chapter in the Qur�an inimitable? To start, below is a summary of chapter al-Kawthar�s literary and linguistic features: 1. Unique Literary Form 2. Unique Linguistic Genre 3. Abundance of rhetorical devices/features: - Emphasis - Multiple Meaning - Iltifaat � Grammatical shift - Word order and Arrangement - Ellipsis - Conceptual Relatedness (Intertextuality) - Intensification - Choice of words & Particles - Phonetics - Semantically Orientated Repetition - Intimacy - Exaggeration - Rebuke and contempt - Conciseness - Flexibility - Prophesy/Factual Example of each feature in the Ayah is given below, in detail. And the verse is SURA 108. Kauthar, or Abundance 1. To thee have We granted the Fount [of Abundance>. 2. Therefore to thy Lord turn in Prayer and Sacrifice. 3. For he who hateth thee, he will be cut off [from Future Hope>. |
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and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious |
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