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a Surah the like thereof

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airmano View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2015 at 8:06am
Quote The Saint: ...the subject of our discussion is Arabic. Quranic Arabic, to be precise.

Airmano: No, look at the title of the thread first before writing such nonsense.

The Saint: And the subject "a Surah the like thereof" is also in Arabic. So, think before you speak. Always.


What did I write again here:

Quote Airmano (citing myself): Since according to the given criteria (as Ron stated) it doesn't seem to be particular difficult to find superior prose, I guess that the selection rules will get quickly tightened.

I dare to make a guess on what we will end up with: - The prose has to be written in old Arabic....


It's easy to be a prophet.

Airmano

Ps: waiting for my second prediction to come true:
Only authors that carry the name Mohamed can be accepted and he/she got to be illiteral.

Edited by airmano - 13 October 2015 at 8:11am
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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The Saint View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Saint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 October 2015 at 6:21am
I think I asked a very simple question and a simple straight answer is in order.

Give me references of the verses/instances you have quoted to show Quranic criteria fulfilled as challenged.

Where are the verses/text from?
Invite [all] to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching;
and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious
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The Saint View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Saint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 October 2015 at 6:33am
Give me references of the verses/instances you have quoted to show Quranic criteria fulfilled as challenged.

What did I write again here:

I do not know. If you want me to know you may kindly tell me.

However, what is your point? What are trying to say?

Airmano (citing myself): Since according to the given criteria (as Ron stated) it doesn't seem to be particular difficult to find superior prose, I guess that the selection rules will get quickly tightened.

Tightened? The rules are there for anyone to read. Are you saying you still do not know?

I dare to make a guess on what we will end up with: - The prose has to be written in old Arabic....

Do you have the ability to compare Arabic with Sanskrit or Latin?

Do you or Webb, even now understand what you are required to do? What the challenge is?
Invite [all] to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching;
and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 October 2015 at 7:44am
Originally posted by The Saint The Saint wrote:

Tightened? The rules are there for anyone to read.

Where? 

Quote Are you saying you still do not know?

We're saying that you do not know.
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chalky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2015 at 8:06am
Interesting discussion but the challenge seems worthless. Who would bother to try to reproduce a book with no chronology, no narrative sequence and very often no context
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The Saint View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Saint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2015 at 8:36am
Here you go. I've only provided one example of each, but in most cases there are several examples to choose from. There are also numerous rhetorical devices not mentioned by Tzortrzis. I'm not sure if this was supposed to be a complete list or merely illustrative. In any case, they are easy enough to find.

Emphasis

From paragraph 5: "certainly, my punishment is violent and severe". The word "certainly" adds emphasis, and the choice of first person singular ("my") rather than the more usual plural form ("our") makes the punishment more personal, implying that the offence is to God directly.

Multiple Meaning

From paragraph 4: "It is God who illuminated the heavens and the earth". The word "illuminated" suggests both the literal meaning of providing light from the sun, and also the metaphorical meaning of revealing the heavens and earth, and making them known to us.

Iltifaat � Grammatical shift

From paragraph 15: "he hopes to merit the reward of his Lord". The reference to "his Lord" is from Ali's point of view; and yet later in the same paragraph He directs Muhammad to say "the chastisement which I prepare for them". A lesser writer might have said "which your Lord prepares", to be consistent; but in His infinite wisdom, God has chosen the word "I", again emphasizing the personal nature of their affront to Him and of His retribution.

Word order and Arrangement

From paragraph 1: "As to myself, I understand and I know." For humans, knowledge precedes understanding -- one gains specific knowledge of details in order to attain understanding of the principles underlying them. God chose to reverse these two concepts to show that He has no such restrictions. His understanding of the world is separate from specific factual knowledge of its parts; indeed, He made the parts in accordance of His understanding of the whole.

Ellipsis

From paragraph 8: "O prophet! my advertisement arrived (at its destination); perhaps will they act (conformably to it)."   The words in parentheses are understood from the context, rather than being part of the text itself. (Note that there is no example of ellipsis given in the Tzortzis analysis of al-Kawthar. Apparently he overlooked it.)

Conceptual Relatedness (Intertextuality)

From paragraph 4: "It is God who illuminated the heavens and the earth" This is related to the so-called "Verse of Light" in the Quran (24:35): "Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth." It is also internally related to paragraph 2, which mentions "the two lights, Muhammed and Ali". Indeed, light is a metaphor that appears frequently in the Quran.

Intensification

From paragraph 17: "they shall be safe in the kiosques of paradise." The word "kiosques" (kiosks) denotes a small space, usually open on one side -- not an obvious place of safety and refuge, nor one which would normally be associated with the grandeur of Paradise. The contrast in meaning intensifies the promise of God to keep them safe even in what might otherwise be seen differently.

Choice of words & Particles

From paragraph 3: "the gardens of delight" Although God seems to take delight in detailing the tortures inflicted on the damned, He prefers generalities in describing heaven, to allow our imaginations to provide whatever images might delight each of us personally. However, in this passage God makes an exception. The metaphor (and it clearly is just a metaphor) of a garden calls to mind the peacefulness as well as the bounty of heaven, to which I think we all can relate.

Phonetics

From paragraph 11: "Their habitation shall be hell". The word "habitation" may be an unusual choice for a place of torture, but the use of this word forms an alliteration to strengthen the message and draw the listener's attention to it.

Semantically Orientated Repetition

From paragraph 3: "they shall be thrown into hell";
from paragraph 7: "certainly, hell is their habitation";
from paragraph 11: "Their habitation shall be hell". Three times God warns that sinners shall be sent to hell, and there are many other passages that present the same semantic idea in different words (2, 5, 9, 12, 15, 16). This drives home the main message, that your loving and merciful God intends to torture disbelievers endlessly.

Intimacy

From paragraph 15: "He passes the night prostrate before God." In addition to indicating Ali's piety, God chooses to mention this to show his intimate relationship and knowledge of Ali's habits, even when he is alone at night.

Exaggeration

From paragraph 9: "their enemy is the Imam of sinners." Whether this is a reference to an historical leader, or perhaps to Satan, the title "Imam" is obviously undeserved; but to use such an epithet heightens the degree of animosity and threat that he poses.

Rebuke and contempt

From paragraph 12: "Among them we changed some into apes and hogs; we cursed them until the day of resurrection." References to apes and hogs are clear expressions of contempt, and there can be no stronger rebuke than the curse that God imposes here.

Conciseness

From paragraph 5: "God had already destroyed Ad and Tamud, on account of their crimes." Rather than provide a long list of crimes and their consequences, God simply refers to two tribes which would have been known at the time the Quran was revealed.

Flexibility

I have no idea what rhetorical device Tzortzis means by "flexibility", and he doesn't give an example himself, so neither will I.

Prophesy/Factual

From paragraph 16: "We have announced to thee a progeny of just men" The "just men" referred to are the Twelve Imams also mentioned in the Quran (5:12). Later in the paragraph they are described as "living or dead", in reference to the Mahdi.


What are these? And from where? Please answer. I need a clear and direct answer.
Invite [all] to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching;
and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious
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The Saint View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Saint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2015 at 8:39am
Interesting discussion but the challenge seems .................

One more seemingly ignorant critic!
Invite [all] to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching;
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The Saint View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Saint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2015 at 8:49am
Tightened? The rules are there for anyone to read.

Where?

Here. Here is a sample. One I have already given you before.

What makes the shortest chapter in the Qur�an inimitable? To start, below is a summary of chapter al-Kawthar�s literary and linguistic features:

1. Unique Literary Form
2. Unique Linguistic Genre
3. Abundance of rhetorical devices/features:
- Emphasis
- Multiple Meaning
- Iltifaat � Grammatical shift
- Word order and Arrangement
- Ellipsis
- Conceptual Relatedness (Intertextuality)
- Intensification
- Choice of words & Particles
- Phonetics
- Semantically Orientated Repetition
- Intimacy
- Exaggeration
- Rebuke and contempt
- Conciseness
- Flexibility
- Prophesy/Factual

Example of each feature in the Ayah is given below, in detail. And the verse is SURA 108. Kauthar, or Abundance
1. To thee have We granted the Fount [of Abundance>.
2. Therefore to thy Lord turn in Prayer and Sacrifice.
3. For he who hateth thee, he will be cut off [from Future Hope>.
Invite [all] to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching;
and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious
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