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110 killed in hajj stampede

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herjihad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herjihad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2006 at 10:22am

Bismillah,

Angel, I have always heard that Hajj is once a year at a specified time.  People who perform the same rituals at a different time of the year are said to be performing "Omra".

However, at our local mosques, the Friday Khutbah and prayer has been split into three separate times to accomodate the large crowds.  This is also done at the Eed prayers and khutbah.  This surprised me, and concerned me when I heard of this practice.  But if they have a fatwa which allows this, which I am sure they must, what about having Hajj twice a year, or performing rituals at night as firewall says people do.

Arabian Knight, maybe you could take your horse over there and help people survive the Hajj by giving them a ride.



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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Nausheen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nausheen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2006 at 11:09am

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

 

Originally posted by Angel Angel wrote:

There is only one solution, have Hajj performed 2 or 3 times a year, to dispate the crowd.

Hajj can be performed only on the 9th of the month of dhul-Hajj on the Islamic calender. This date cannot repeat itself two or three times every year

Peace,

Nausheen

<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa

Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena

wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Suleyman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suleyman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2006 at 11:18am
Originally posted by Angel Angel wrote:

It's not so much if not hardly about poor people management, or crowd control.  That seems to be going on quite well.

The problem is the "amount" of people that go every year.

There is only one solution, have Hajj performed 2 or 3 times a year, to dispate the crowd.

As far as I know, there is no specific date to perform Hajj, only that it is prescribed to do once in a life time where possible.

Welcome Angel,how i missed these words...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2006 at 10:01pm
Originally posted by Nausheen Nausheen wrote:

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

 

Originally posted by Angel Angel wrote:

There is only one solution, have Hajj performed 2 or 3 times a year, to dispate the crowd.

Hajj can be performed only on the 9th of the month of dhul-Hajj on the Islamic calender. This date cannot repeat itself two or three times every year

Peace,

Nausheen

I see.

I have never come across any specific date only that to do Hajj once in a life time.

Is there is quranic verses supporting this specific date?

Originally posted by herjihad herjihad wrote:

what about having Hajj twice a year,

Well I suggested that but Nausheen said above.....

What is omra ?

I don't see any other solution to stop stampedes and other incidents from happening, they will continue unless the amount of crowd is lessened. No amount of good or better infrustrature will help, if people knew that then there will be more people and you are back at the same problem.

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote -ArabianKnight- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2006 at 4:59am
Originally posted by herjihad herjihad wrote:

Arabian Knight, maybe you could take your horse over there and help people survive the Hajj by giving them a ride.



Thanks... thats a nice attitude..  Here no Evil, See No Evil Eh?...


You'll surly go far.. Like a shooting star.. to maybe even Mars...
Where you can drive cars, and play golf - bearly making par. And show off your scars, from setting fire to bars... Ride in trolly cars, that smell like tar, eating hersey bars from a mason jar and jamming on your electric guitar. On your way to the Bazaar, where you buy plane tickets to Vina del Mar, with your Iraqi Dinars. To watch Jesus Christ Super STar!... AarRg...Now My Door's Ajar, Oh well, Thats all I have... au revoir....

THere Is no god, BUT GOD
and Adam was his First Messenger
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suleyman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2006 at 6:51am

Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh,

For understanding Hajj, i request from all of the user for reading the paragraphe BELOW then the book...the accident happended in Hajj is not the mistake of the managers,of course they have to improve the situation more than today adding their works in 5 years but the issue is different,if i had time i would like tell the ambiance at there, please satisfy with the book below,one of my favorite books....

http://www.al-islam.org/hajj/shariati/

Quotation from the admirable book:

 

HAJJ/Mina 

At Mina, the longest and last pause occurs! It signifies hope, aspiration, idealism and ... love! Love is the last stage it follows knowledge and consciousness (sense). Adhering to eastern gnosticism, Dante, in his book Divine Comedy ..., recognizes only two stages - wisdom (Virgil) and love (Beatrice). However, during the "Divine Drama" of Hajj, three stages, knowledge, consciousness and love, exist! 

The greatest moment of Hajj, the tenth day on which the 'Id of sacrifice falls, has arrived. The light of the rising sun in Mashar awakens the people from their slumber. Gradually, the clusters of soldiers from various corners join together and merge into a huge river. Having established a solid army, they prepare to leave Mashar and go on to their next stop in Mina. 

The army of Tawheed has spent the entire night gathering arms, communicating with Allah and waiting for the sun to rise. These "worshippers" of Mashar are transformed into the "lions" of Mina! Wholeheartedly in love and overflowing with anger they rush toward Mina. 

Prophet (PBUH) 

Enemies of the unbelievers and brothers among yourselves.  

The army maneuvers toward the west to Mina, the land of Allah and Satan. The smile of the 'Id's sun has made everyone restless. As the soldiers pass through the strait of Mohassar, a very narrow strait, the lines become more solid. As the Commander in Chief, the sun orders the soldiers to "act", to "run" with "small and swift steps", to "stay together" and to "hurry"! Those who were in the state of intuition and tranquility in Mashar suddenly become nimble and restless, dashing to Mina. Abruptly, they halt as if they have encountered a huge non-penetrating dam! They sit back as if they can no longer proceed further. There are only a few movements at the very end of the crowd. What has happened??? Which dam in the world has such power as this roaring river??? Who can give such an absolute order to "stop" here??? The Sunrise!!! The Sun is the Commander. 

Now, the army is in front of Mina. Millions of freedom-fighters who refuse to obey any power except Allah crowd the long lines. An imaginary line beyond which no one dares to step exists; this invisible wall separates Mashar from Mina. No one and no power can brake through the secure wall, not even Ibrahim (PBUH) or Mohammed (PBUH). Such a restriction is not a "rule" or a "contract", but a "tradition" . It is the order of that same system which governs the entire universe (Allah). 

And THERE WILL BE NO ALTERATION OR ASSIMILATION IN HIS TRADITION.  

Quran XXXV: 43 

As the natural force of gravity prevails, as life and death are realities, here the sun is the Commander! Let it rise! It will penetrate the wall with its delicate beams and make way for the army to pass as simply as when a shadow disappears by light. The concrete wall which has halted the army will soon be destroyed by the "smile of the morning"! Behind the invisible wall the restless and well-armed soldiers have waited all night for the sun to rise and the command to pass! Although the night has terminated and sparks of light are scattered all over, there are still a few moments before the sun will appear in the east. Nowhere on this earth, at no given time and upon no nation has the "sunrise" had such authority! In a state of very deep and exciting silence, millions of eyes and hearts wait to receive the command (to see the sunrise). Some hear it sooner because of their desperation and restlessness! Why??? It is an order to the army which symbolizes the power of Tawheed on earth. Here you will find the only army in history that is governed by the sun and the only nation that has agreed to be ruled by the sun and by the morning!! 

At Arafat, the sun is rising and coming up behind the mountains. The dawn has already demolished the tent of the evil of the darkness and splashed the blood of all those who were martyred by the oppressors or unbelievers in "the face of the 'Id". At this point, the sun is ordering the army of tawheed to revenge by attacking the roots of the three oppressors of history. 

Such wonderful moments! The sun by its light, twilight by it's piercing beams and morning by its breeze have made everyone restless. These "holy signs of Allah" which characterize happiness, hope and faith are appearing to give the order to fight and the good tidings of victory. They are here to command you to destroy the idols. Today, Satan's largest base on earth will be annihilated Today, polytheism will be killed. Today, tawheed, love and devotion will reveal their glorious faces; in other words, they will manifest their true essence! 

Suddenly, the sunrise illuminates the straight and the soldiers are ordered to pass. The clamour of happiness, the sun beams and the flood of people will unite and flow into the Strait of Mina. The crowd no longer consists of "the white birds of peace" but instead"the armed freedom-fighters". This is why the orders must be followed and discipline must be implemented. 

"Stay in Mashar all night"! "Enter Mina on the tenth day"! 

At dawn, you should be at the border of Mina. To join and pass this boundary, you must view the sun of the tenth day. Mina is toward the west while Arafat is toward the east. The army faces Mina; the sun rises behind the soldiers; the sun passes the mountains of Arafat; and the sun enters the Strait of Mina. THEREFORE, THE SUN IS ALSO PERFORMING HAJJ; IT RISES IN ARAFAT, PASSES FROM MASHAR AND ENTERS MINA. 

The army of love is ready for Jihad. Those freedom fighters who came from Arafat, spent the night in Mashar, collected their arms and strengthened their faith have to wait at the gate of Mina. Where? At the border of a city that is the center of martyrdom and simultaneously the battlefield! Wait and obey the sun! How? 

- Prepare yourself 

- collect your arms at night! 

- Do not enter Mina before sunrise since the night it the appointed time for the pause in Mashar. 

- Do not remain in Mashar after sunrise since the daytime is the prime time to be in Mina. 

- Start your attack at sunrise. 

- The rise of which sun? That of the tenth day of Zul-Hijja. 

- When it is time to attack, the order of the "sun" is the order of "time". 

- Obey this order. 

- Listen only to the sun. 

- And look for the sun of the tenth day, the sun of 'Id. 

Oh Allah! There is quite a distance from the border of Mina to the bases of the Satans. The battlefield is far from the entrance of Mina. Nevertheless, naturally the 'Id should be celebrated after you have defeated the devils by shooting them and achieving victory. But ... look at the nation of Tawheed and its tradition The 'Id has been celebrated even before the battle commences. 

This means: You are victorious once you "make your decision"! This means: You have won the battle once you enter the border of Mina! 

And ... What is being said? Oh God! How difficult it is to understand this simple nation? How complicated are these easy-going people?! 

This means: You will be victorious if it is the time. When is the time? If you come from Arafat. "If" you have stayed in Mashar - contemplating and gathering the weapons for the morning of the 'Id ... 

No, No! The most important "ifs" have not been mentioned! Hajj is like nature; it is a genuine portrait of Islam - Islam not in "words" but in "action"! It is a "symbol". The deeper you dive in this sea, the farther you are from the end; it is endless! It means as much as "you understand". Only one can claim that he understands it all, he who understands none! 

The most important "ifs" have been omitted: 

- If you come during the Hajj season. 

- If you have gone to Miqat. 

- If you are dressed in Ihram. 

What is being said? 

Who are YOU? Who am I? 

"One can do nothing"! The holy Quran speaks of "people" not "one" person. What a beautiful word, "people", is used. It is plural and has no singular form! 

Allah's hand supports the Community. 

Movement, perfection, representation of Allah in this world, victory and ... are all written in the "fate of the people". Allah's constant tradition is to help the community and the society at large. The "fate of history" is toward the confirmation of Allah's tradition in the creation of mankind. What "you" and "I" can do is to discover this tradition and make the right selection from the written fate, the fate of history, the will of God at a given time, the outcome of man's life and the end of the continuous revolution for universal peace! 

Since this is the Allah of Ibrahim and the Creator of Mankind who says in the Holy Quran, XXI: 105: 

My righteous slaves will inherit the earth. 

And He is the one who promises: 

Quran XXVIII: 5 

And we desired to show favor unto those who were oppressed on earth and to make them examples and to make them inheritors.  

"Defenselessness", which includes whatever weakens and alienates mankind, will destroy all human morals and physical powers. This is the word that describes all of the ways and means employed by the enemies of mankind, colonialism, exploitation, banishment or any other term which may be used in the future. Let them say what pleases them! Regardless, Allah promises that He will rescue and liberate the victims of oppression. Furthermore, He renders the pledge of the future leadership of human society. The class of people who were always and everywhere deprived of their human right will inherit the palaces of power, the treasuries of wealth and the fortunes of education! What a similarity between the words ("the oppressed people of the world") and("the wretched of the earth")' which is the title of a book by Frantz Fanon. "On the day of judgment, God's officials will divide people into two groups - those saved who will go to heaven and those damned who will go to hell". Even in this world those commissioned by Satan have separated people into two groups - the heavenly ones and the tormented ones. As Sartre says in the beginning of his book, From Two Billion Population of the Earth, colonialists believe that five-hundred million people are "human" while one and a half billion are "natives" or the under privileged people who constitute the third world! 

But what difference does it make if the fate of history and Allah's determination grant victory to the "victims of oppression", "the helpless ones of the earth" or "the children of Abel" ?!! Allah's determination will not be altered; this is the fate of history! 

Allah created phenomena and He also set forth the orientation. 

(Quran XXXV: 43) 

And you, as a "phenomenon", are to discover this fate and choose your fate! Just as nature and history have their own destiny, you have a destiny! 

"You" are an inmate in the big four "prisons" of "nature", "history", "society" and "yourself". Consciously, you should discover the fate of nature by learning the sciences and accordingly free yourself from its prison. Consciously, you should discover history (by learning philosophy and historical sciences) and accordingly change your history. Consciously, you should discover your society (by learning sociology) and become acquainted with how to apply its rules in order to free yourself. To escape these three prisons you need "knowledge". But, what about the fourth one, the prison of human instincts??? It is internal and carried by you! Science is unable to liberate you from this jail since it is inside you. It is in your knowledgeable self! You require a special knowledge to introduce "you" to "yourself" and to help you discover yourself. You require a certain power to enable you to overcome your weaknesses and to rebel against yourself. 

You require a strong hand to help you and to change you. In this case, knowledge is not a remedy; rather, it is a prisoner of the learned by itself. However, wisdom, consciousness and faith (the lights that were kindled on earth by the prophets) are the types of knowledge that will facilitate your self-discovery and identification of your internal prisoner. The power that will release you from self-centeredness is not the "servant of science" but is the "art of love"! It will enable you to yield your "life" by Shahadat if you feel it is your prisoner. And, with your own hands, you will sacrifice your Ismail, something beyond Shahadat, if you think he is in your way. It may be concluded that you can free yourself from the fourth jail through "love"! This knowledge endows you with such a degree of consciousness and creativity that allows you to build yourself up to the will of Allah and not to be merely a servant of nature! 

Man is a creature who descended upon this earth and was left alone. Therefore, you are only an existing phenomenon and must construct your own nature. You are a Zero or a nothing who may become everything! You are a "doubt" or a "possibility" who may acquire the shape of a man. If you choose to be human and consciously discover your nature (faith), you will be able to liberate yourself. You will be able to find the fate of history and realize that history is the fate of man through the ages as well as an evolution from zero toward Allah. From one nothing you begin to know man and his values and so you adopt humanity. This is an everlasting "river"; it is an eternal current. The sovereignty of the night of Mashar and the oppression of the three oppressors in Mina will not change or divert the progressive course of this fate. This is the "fate" of Allah! 

THE TEXT OF YOUR FATE WILL BE WRITTEN BY OTHERS IF YOU "DO NOT KNOW"; BUT YOU WILL WRITE IT IF YOU "KNOW"!!! And you, Oh "Zero", who are now "conscious" and "free", if you come to Miqat on time and know and follow your natural way (fate of Adam), you will be on the right path (i.e. going from home to Kaaba) or from "mud" to "Allah")! 

The world is under the authority of "Allah's will" and ruled by scientific determination. Standing at the bank of this "river" you are free and entitled to decide either to remain in the bank and die OR to enter the river of people and move! (Now, one may realize what Imam Sadegh said, "It is neither free-will nor predestination but in between the two or a combination of both". It is a freedom to choose the fate. "Submission + Obedience = Islam.") 

This flood of people overflows the border of Mina and conquers the land of Eblis. While Satan is defeated, the sun of the tenth day raises the flag of victory. With its first smile, the sun gives the signal to pass. It renders the order to begin the battle and attack; simultaneously, the sun announces the victory and the completion of the task! 

This is the fate of history and Allah's will for the people - all in the hands of mankind and being left up to you! So - what is the most important "If"??? That you be victorious "if you have joined this flood of people". The people who have decided to approach Allah! The nation! The everlasting and moving society! The roaring river that will penetrate through any rock or dam and inevitably reach the sea ...! Yes, if you do not stop on your way to Mina from Mashar, if you do not go the wrong way nor your way but join the people, you will reach Mina, defeat the Satans and sacrifice your Ismail. This is the clear order of Allah to all those who go to Hajj. 

Quran II:198 

When you participate in the multitude from Arafat, remember Allah by the sacred monument. Remember Him since He has guided you, although before you were of those astray. 

Fully armed and determined, the army of Tawheed enters the valley of Mina, Mina the battlefield. "

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skygazer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skygazer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2006 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by MOCKBA MOCKBA wrote:

There is no point blaming Saudi government either... it is us individuals that need to be aware at all times and remind others to do the same.

 

I'm not trying to blame them; it's obviously a really tough situation. but people being there illegally and not doing as they're told is predictable. can't they limit the number each year? I read there were something like 3 million people there. that's too many for such a confined space.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2006 at 7:17pm
I think some are making multiple trips every year. I don't know specifically but it wouldn't surprise me.
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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